NIMBYs take over the GOP
Christian Britschgi directed me to an August 2018 WSJ article, describing HUD secretary Ben Carson’s views on housing deregulation:
“I want to encourage the development of mixed-income multifamily dwellings all over the place,” Mr. Carson said. He hopes to have a new rule in place by the fall.
The secretary pointed to Los Angeles as an example of how zoning rules stymie housing development. He said a large majority of the city’s parcels of land are eligible only for single-family home development, not larger projects that could house more people and help moderate price growth. “Of course you’re going to have skyrocketing prices that no one can afford,” he said.
Now we are in an election year, and the GOP wants to win votes by promising that affluent suburbanites won’t be faced with “those people” moving into their neighborhoods. The WSJ has a new editorial, penned by Ben Carson and Donald J. Trump:
The crime and chaos in Democrat-run cities have gotten so bad that liberals are even getting out of Manhattan’s Upper West Side. Rather than rethink their destructive policies, the left wants to make sure there is no escape. The plan is to remake the suburbs in their image so they resemble the dysfunctional cities they now govern. As usual, anyone who dares tell the truth about what the left is doing is smeared as a racist.
We won’t allow this to happen. That’s why we stopped the last administration’s radical social-engineering project that would have transformed the suburbs from the top down. We reversed an Obama-Biden regulation that would have empowered the Department of Housing and Urban Development to abolish single-family zoning, compel the construction of high-density “stack and pack” apartment buildings in residential neighborhoods, and forcibly transform neighborhoods across America so they look and feel the way far-left ideologues and technocratic bureaucrats think they should.
Comments:
1. Jack Kemp is rolling over in his grave. His inclusive vision for the GOP is officially dead.
2. Ben Carson must really want to keep his job. This is more like a hostage letter than an editorial.
3. The argument that Trump is a “deregulation” president has become a joke. Yes, he’s made it easier for energy companies to poison our rivers and air, but in the really important areas like housing, trade, and immigration he’s made regulations even worse. If there’s an argument for Trumponomics, it’s certainly not deregulation.
PS. I do enjoy when Trump admits the truth about MAGA:
The crime and chaos in Democrat-run cities have gotten so bad . . .
Almost all of America’s cities are run by Democrats, so Trump’s saying that much of America has become full of worsening crime and chaos. At least we won’t have live through tiresome claims that Trump has Made America Great Again.
Tags:
18. August 2020 at 00:03
Yes, I can’t help, but laugh when Trump supporters tell me that Trump’s deregulation has been great, as I think of how frequently he recklessly throws his weight around, getting into the private business decisions of companies that get his attention, usually with an eye for revenge or propaganda. Of course, he never begins to understand of the the relevant issues involved, nor does he care.
18. August 2020 at 00:12
Scott,
Is this anti-Nimby talk really more than virtual signaling? I somehow doubt that you, or anyone else here, would agree if their home was suddenly surrounded by 1-4 high-density “stack and pack” apartment buildings, preferably very high and very cheap, with corresponding poor residents. Who wants that? Let’s be honest and realistic, for once.
Sorry Scott, I’m not buying it at all. It’s just talk, in the hope and even knowledge that one’s own middle to upper class residential area will be spared.
18. August 2020 at 00:13
*virtue, sry my auto-correct.
18. August 2020 at 01:32
Christian List,
I favor deregulating housing development and I’d not only welcome more high density housing, but I choose to live in it myself. As far as low income is concerned, I would like it if my area was more affordable.
18. August 2020 at 03:23
When I lived in Houston:
– I could walk from a pretty suburban neighborhood to bars, restaurants, coffee shops, ice cream for the kids
– There were single family homes priced over $1M within a block or 2 of luxury apartments: the apartments did not obviously drive down values of single family homes
– I was always able to live within the inner loop keeping my commute sane
It was the best housing/commute I’ve ever had. Kinda ruined by the apocalyptic flooding though.
18. August 2020 at 03:27
Christian, some of us genuinely want the world to be a better place for people beyond ourselves.
18. August 2020 at 04:01
Scott won’t get MM but he might get MMT. But we will save the planet—right? That is supposedly obvious. Planet has been here, what, —-about 7 or 8 billion years? But lower those CO2 emissions (excuse me, anthropomorphic CO2) to zero and all will be fine.
And as Scott well knows “free always works”. And of course it is the reaction to Trump which is Trumps fault! That’s why cities suck.
And then we have young Jason —-telling us that “some of us” genuinely want the world to be a “better place” for people—-beyond ourselves! All of these wonderful politicians will take care of us—backed by intellectuals like Scott.
Scott points to California real estate zoning practices to attack Trump’s “racism”. I am pretty sure there is no form of government that Scott would not support if it meant getting rid of Trump.
18. August 2020 at 04:41
“But lower those CO2 emissions (excuse me, anthropomorphic CO2) to zero and all will be fine.”
Ignorance is bliss?
18. August 2020 at 05:30
Scott it is tiring to see these anti-Trump posts popping up all the time. It really feels like motivated reasoning- you have your mind made up strongly that he sucks, and are latching on to anything that supports the conclusion.
OF COURSE, in a public editorial in the WSJ, he is going to say what he thinks voters want to hear. In order to evaluate his performance, we would need to understand that rule that was repealed in detail and compare it to the optimal economic structure and/or see what regulations replaced it, if any. THAT would be a very enlightening post from Scott Sumner, one of my favorite economists. But instead we keep getting posts from Scott Sumner, private citizen pissed off at Trump. There are plenty of those on Twitter.
18. August 2020 at 06:21
I was all in for Biden but have been recently shocked at how Marxism has permeated cultural and academic institutions including the Democratic Party. I wonder what liberty we can expect to lose in coming years.
18. August 2020 at 06:28
Scott,
I think this is a classic case of not knowing their audience. I heard an interview last year that a big part of Bernie’s strategy was to appeal to rural voters who would benefit from M4A. I’m not a political scientist nor do I know many rural voters, but I could have told them that rural voters would not be drawn to policies that Bernie deemed to be in their best interest.
Trump seems to think that suburban voters would be better off with less non-white people around them, but most suburban voters disagree.
BTW: 30 miles from the city is exurb, not suburb.
18. August 2020 at 06:34
@postkey
No, ignorance may be bliss but it should not be. Current satellite temp readings are .4 degrees C higher than the 41 year benchmark. Is that bad? Don’t know. CO2 (by man) according to the last IPCC will have a .4% impact on GDP by year 2100–of course if the growth rate would have otherwise been 2%, then GDP per capita then will be 3.5 times today if we do nothing (nothing means no forced changes not no changes). I think such long term predictions—-without any current predictive theory on natural temperature change over time——are ridiculous. But it is their prediction. But what is the impact if we go complete no fossil fuels? Obviously it will have a greater impact on GDP certainly over next 20-30 years.
But what are we protecting ourselves from? If that is there own economic view—-how bad can it be?
If we want to believe the “end of the world stuff” like AOC, that is one thing. But no one does. Proof that this is all just pretend —-at least politically—-look at Europe——who make targets that Greenpeace opposes because “they do nothing”. Finally Michael Moore figured that out.
One has to believe in disaster—-which is no more likely than a asteroid strike (which we need to focus on and we do not need vague theories to do so)—-to support Dem view.
I know you have heard all this before and think it’s wrong, but I thought it would still be useful to respond.
18. August 2020 at 07:44
Christian, You said:
“Is this anti-Nimby talk really more than virtual signaling?”
Not surprised to see such a selfish comment from you, the guy that claims to shed tears about the Uighurs. Actually, I’d love to see more dense development in my town. We often go to Irvine because it does allow density and is hence a much more interesting place.
I wish people like you would just come out and admit that they favor regulations that screw the poor and oppose regulations that screw the rich.
Michael Rulle, Read what you just wrote and ask yourself how it would have been different if written by a 8th grader. If you don’t have anything useful to say, why even post?
You said:
“Scott won’t get MM but he might get MMT. But we will save the planet—right? That is supposedly obvious. Planet has been here, what, —-about 7 or 8 billion years? But lower those CO2 emissions (excuse me, anthropomorphic CO2) to zero and all will be fine.”
Not just stupid, but totally unrelated to the post, which is on zoning.
Saber, How many times do I need to say this is my bad blog and Econlog is my good blog.
It’s tiring to read endless comments about how bad this blog has become. That’s my intention.
18. August 2020 at 08:15
RE: “ I wish people like you would just come out and admit that they favor regulations that screw the poor and oppose regulations that screw the rich.”
As someone paying >$5k per month to live on the UWS, and recently waking up to sounds of gunfire, I wish that the government would get rid of regulations that favor the poor and screw the rich. Thank you HUD for enabling govt subsidized dirt cheap financing and tax credits for low income housing construction. Thanks Diblasio for moving hundreds of homeless and sex offenders into three star hotels in my neighborhood. To be fair though, I agree that trump is not a free mkt guy, and this residential zoning regulation does screw poor people relative to their current advantaged situation… although this advantaged situation was created by regulation in the first place (I.e. HUD construction financing incentives, etc.). Just get rid of all of it.
18. August 2020 at 11:57
Sorry Scott—I am talking about Not Trump voters which includes you—I know you are not voting for Biden—-you will vote I assume for that libertarian—great–but I did mention zoning too and your absurd link to Trump’s “racism”–
also all the other things you will get when whats her name gets 5 votes and if the “not Trump” voters win—you and I will get the rest.
18. August 2020 at 12:04
Scott,
That was my point exactly. You are all NIMBY, like most people, which is kind of natural, to some extent, I guess.
I wasn’t talking about some dense development “somewhere” in town.
I was talking about tearing down the two to four nearest houses right next to your house and building them up with cheap apartment buildings, the higher the better, the cheaper the better, and the more underclass people the better, with all the side effects that come with it.
Don’t tell me you are fighting for this. It’s a flat-out lie, like all the other liars who have commented here in this thread. It’s ridiculous. Guys, stop lying to yourself, it’s embarassing.
You don’t want that, you even wrote several times in this blog that you don’t want to live next to poor people! Of course not, who wants that, people prefer to live next to rich people. At least you were honest about this one back then. Good for you, Scott. Good for you.
And I am selfish? Really? I live in rent in a very small apartment in an apartment building with 8 other apartments right next to me. The housing is cheap, but I like it there and I don’t care about pretentious wealth anyway.
But you have to get used to these kind of apartments and the people that come along with it of course, and you must not have too many demands, and I would never in my life look down on other people just because they want to live in single-family houses, and I would never want to force these people to condense the living space in their immediate surroundings unless they explicitly want to do so.
And I’m simply pointing out the truth, which is that all those single-family housing snobs don’t want the houses in their immediate neighborhood being torn down and replaced by huge cheap housing. Nobody wants that, that’s why they bought those houses in the first place.
I have mentioned before that my father is on a city council and I have been following this hypocrisy for at least 25 years now. So please spare me.
Of course, every one of these hypocrites wants some dense development “somewhere” in town, but nobody wants it in their immediate neighbourhood. That’s the very defintion of NIMBY.
But what happens then, in a city like Mission Viejo, which consists almost exclusively of good-quality single-family homes? Go figure. It’s not that hard to figure out.
As I said before, I don’t want to judge, I would let these people be. But when these people start with virtue signaling and anti-NIMBY talk, then it gets really ridiculous.
A serious debate should be based on the truth as much as possible. And it’s fruitless if people are not honest. And let’s face it, the dishonesty amongst people is extreme when it comes to issues like NIMBY and housing.
18. August 2020 at 13:07
Is this the actions of a ‘racist’?
“While criticizing Trump’s words, writers omitted Trump’s positive relations with minorities. For decades Trump cultivated friendships with African Americans. He sued the city of Palm Beach for excluding African Americans and Jews from social clubs. He created the first high-end social club in Palm Beach that welcomed black persons as members. He supported Jesse Jackson’s Rainbow/PUSH Coalition to pressure corporations to hire and promote black and minority employees. Trump supported the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People. He praised minorities working in his real estate projects. In 1999, he wanted to run for President with an African American woman as his running-mate. He made campaign contributions to political candidates who are African Americans and minorities. He made more contributions to an African American than to any white candidate. He also donated to charities affiliated with prominent African Americans.”
http://www.newstandardpress.com/the-donald-and-the-blacks/
18. August 2020 at 14:07
” I would never in my life look down on other people just because they want to live in single-family houses, ”
Hear hear!! This is it exactly!
Down with snobbery. It sucks. Why can’t we choose what type of area we’d like to live in? You like high density? Great! Go live somewhere like that.
You like small family homes? Great too!
Why all this hate for letting a community decide how it wants to look? It’s sad and extremely depressing.
18. August 2020 at 14:19
I read the WSJ editorial by Trump and Carson and my recollection is that they objected to the Federal Government requiring local communities to change their zoning to allow high density.
I have no problem with high density zoning. I do have a problem with the Federal Government mandating local zoning policy and I agree with the Trump and Carson editorial. The issue is less about zoning and more about an intrusive federal government. In fact, I think this is the main issue in the presidential election. The Dems want to control the Federal Government and use it to regulate all aspects of our lives and this scares me!
18. August 2020 at 14:42
From the IPCC report 2019.
“Without increased and urgent mitigation ambition in the coming years, leading to a sharp decline in greenhouse gas emissions by 2030, global warming will surpass 1.5°C in the following decades, leading to irreversible loss of the most fragile ecosystems, and crisis after crisis for the most vulnerable people and societies. . . .
| Why are we Talking about 1.5°C?
Summary: Climate change represents an urgent and potentially irreversible threat to human societies and the planet. “
https://www.ipcc.ch/site/assets/uploads/sites/2/2019/06/SR15_Full_Report_High_Res.pdf
18. August 2020 at 15:13
Scott is very smart. He believes in a majoritarian ethical system where the good is determined by the will of the majority (i.e. the greatest good as determined by the greatest number). And, of course, the majority always makes the right decision. Call it what you will – good and bad is as changeable as the whim of the people.
Scott is very smart. He lives in a very nice and very Caucasian community in So. Cal, but he prefers to live in a majority brown and black community, although statistics show such communities are more crime ridden. This is an example of situation ethics. Do as I say, not as I do.
Scott is very smart. On his site he claims he doesn’t trust the veracity of the news media. Yet in the next stroke of a pen, he documents 14 single events (presumably taken from 14 different stories on the net) that Trump said or did something contradicting himself. He spends hours perusing the media he distrusts.
Scott is very smart. When one commentator JC1 noted in a twitter link displaying a video of the devastation caused by antifa in Portland, Scott replied that the other does it too. So what. I am paraphrasing. He repeats Trump’s talking points, and he doesn’t even realize it. Scott is very smart.
18. August 2020 at 15:24
Why not just eliminate all property zoning nationwide?
This proposition would have to be argued to the Supreme Court, which in the past has upheld city zoning powers.
But as I always say, there are no atheists in foxholes and there are no libertarians when neighborhood property-zoning is under review.
18. August 2020 at 15:25
Christian, You said:
“That was my point exactly. You are all NIMBY”
No, I said exactly the opposite. Can’t you read?
Bob, No, that’s not at all what’s at stake here. I’d suggest familiarizing yourself on the issue before commenting.
JG is not very smart.
Everyone, LOL at all the conservatives who’ve been opposing restrictive zoning for decades and then change their minds right after Trump.
And no, zoning has nothing to do with freedom of choice, it’s exactly the opposite. Unlike modern conservatives, I trust the market to supply the sort of housing people that desire, not government regulators.
18. August 2020 at 15:35
Bob O’Brian–
Why worry? Biden has vowed to “end the era of shareholder capitalism” and the Democrats want to use the Federal Reserve to end “racial inequality.”
I wonder in a couple of years if we will see a Scott Sumner post along the lines of, “And I thought Trump was bad?”
Good luck everybody. You have a Hobson’s Choice awaiting you.
18. August 2020 at 17:31
“Bob, No, that’s not at all what’s at stake here. I’d suggest familiarizing yourself on the issue before commenting.”
From the WSJ editorial:
“…We reversed an Obama-Biden regulation that would have empowered the Department of Housing and Urban Development to abolish singlefamily zoning, compel the construction etc…..”
I trust Ben Carson and if this is what he says my default is to believe him. If a TDS person contradicts Ben then I put it up to bias by the TDS person unless I am presented with good data to the contrary.
18. August 2020 at 17:56
The argument that Trump is a “deregulation” president has become a joke. Yes, he’s made it easier for energy companies to poison our rivers and air, but in the really important areas like housing, trade, and immigration he’s made regulations even worse. If there’s an argument for Trumponomics, it’s certainly not deregulation.
– housing law is regulated by the city and state, the central govt has very little power to transgress local zoning and price ceiling laws. What do you think Ben Carson and Thomas Sowell should do? They don’t operate in the same capacity as the mob.
– you have a warped view of trade. Every person in this country, including most left wingers (bernie camp) want Tariffs and tought measures on China. You consistently fail to see the destruction of trade on our economy. You sit behind your desk, without taking a road trip through the ghost towns of the midwest. People are homeless because some business owner wants to increase his profit margin (that is what it boils down too).
– Energy companies consistently innovate. You don’t think Exxon is researching alternative energy? Of course they are. They have the best scientists in the world trying to find a solution, because any solution that is cheaper than oil will yield extraordinary dividends. The last thing these companies need are apparatchiks taking research money, and placing that money into their private bank accounts. That is precisely where the “fines” go. I.e., hey, I will low the fine for you a bit, but can you “hook me up”? Happens every day!
STOP REGULATING. AND YOU WON”T HAVE A BANANA REPUBLIC WITH POWER HUNGRY, STARVING LITTLE POLITBUROS.
18. August 2020 at 19:05
Trump is TEOTWAWKI ! Klaxons!!
“Stock market live Tuesday: S&P 500 record close, up 54% from low, bull market confirmed”–CNBC
Oh.
18. August 2020 at 21:01
BTW, if we rally wanted market incentives to improve output of the US economy, we would eliminate payroll taxes and replace lost trust fund revenue with property taxes.
19. August 2020 at 01:51
I just cannot fathom how Scott continues to gripe towards the very system he created. It’s a like a programming yelling at his computer for not producing the correct code, or a blacksmith who yells at others for the sword he created.
The United States has been implementing Sumner’s policies for the last 40 years. And look at the country! Look at how corrupt, and destitute it has become. This is the Krugman, Sumner, Mankiw model. Here is a little poem that they would surely approve of:
Ship jobs abroad to increase profit margin
No jobs around, there is no pra`bla`m
We will just keep advocating the same nonsense
Until your bank account has zero cents.
19. August 2020 at 03:51
BTW, if we rally wanted market incentives to improve output of the US economy, then ‘this’ situation would be changed?
“Multivariate analysis indicates that economic elites and organized groups representing business interests have substantial independent impacts on U.S. government policy, while average citizens and mass-based interest groups have little or no independent influence. The results provide substantial support for theories of Economic-Elite Domination and for theories of Biased Pluralism, but not for theories of Majoritarian Electoral Democracy or Majoritarian Pluralism. “
https://www.cambridge.org/core/services/aop-cambridge-core/content/view/S1537592714001595
19. August 2020 at 09:55
Ben, Trump does not believe in local control, he wants local governments to implement his vision. And the GOP has switched from opposition to zoning to support of zoning. You should be getting your information from Trump editorials.
Xu, You asked:
“What do you think Ben Carson and Thomas Sowell should do?”
How about Carson doing what he committed to in January, before Trump forced him to humiliate himself. Do you people even follow what’s going on in this country, of do you prefer to remain ignorant?
As for trade, polls show support for trade and immigration is surging higher in recent years. The pols may be wrong, but you have zero evidence for your claim.
Micah, You said:
“I just cannot fathom how Scott continues to gripe towards the very system he created. . . . The United States has been implementing Sumner’s policies for the last 40 years. ”
Yes, as an unemployed former grad student in 1980, making $1500/year, I created America’s economic system. It was all part of an evil plot to impose neoliberalism on an unsuspecting public. And Trump began undoing the damage, reducing America’s trade deficit. Oh wait . . .
I’m actually amused that Trumpistas know so little economics that they don’t understand that Trump’s reckless fiscal policy made the trade deficit worse, just as any competent economist could have predicted. And I’m even more amused that Trumpistas don’t bother to even check the data, rather just accept as a matter of faith that Trump is “doing something about trade”.
By all means stay in your bubble if it makes you happy.
19. August 2020 at 11:57
” . . . made the trade deficit worse, . . . ”
Really?
“Do current account deficits matter?
We continually read that nations with current account deficits (CAD) are living beyond their means and are being bailed out by foreign savings. This claim is particularly potent in the current US-China context.
In MMT, this sort of claim would never make any sense. A CAD can only occur if the foreign sector desires to accumulate financial (or other) assets denominated in the currency of issue of the country with the CAD. This desire leads the foreign country (whichever it is) to deprive their own citizens of the use of their own resources (goods and services) and net ship them to the country that has the CAD, which, in turn, enjoys a net benefit (imports greater than exports). A CAD means that real benefits (imports) exceed real costs (exports) for the nation in question.”
http://bilbo.economicoutlook.net/blog/?p=10389
19. August 2020 at 18:41
“I’m actually amused that Trumpistas know so little economics that they don’t understand that Trump’s reckless fiscal policy made the trade deficit worse, just as any competent economist could have predicted. …”.
I agree that Trump’s fiscal policy is bad. However, I support Trump anyway because the alterantive is much worse! Arguments against Trump in absolute terms are not worth much. Better to compare Trump to the alternative.
20. August 2020 at 04:57
Scott,
You have written nothing about your backyard. You’re just engaging in improbable virtue signaling.
It also doesn’t fit that you bought a house in Mission Viejo, which consists almost exclusively of pretty expensive single-family homes. More zoning than in Mission Viejo is hardly possible. Actions speak louder than virtue signaling.
But is it boring there, right? As if one didn’t know beforehand what a place would be like, that consists almost exclusively of single-family houses.
20. August 2020 at 08:23
Christian, LOL. By your logic if I’d chosen to live in an apartment I could not possible favor allowing builders to put up a single family house. You can’t even imagine that a person might have a principled belief in FREEDOM. But just because you and Trump are selfish in your policy views, don’t assume the whole world is the same.
20. August 2020 at 14:15
Scott,
no, I’m just trying to see people the way they are. I try to look at them with a loving and benevolent look, but also with as little wishful thinking and illusions as possible.
I also don’t think the GOP positions have changed. Zoning seems to exist in almost all developed countries, which suggests that there are far greater (“market”) forces at work here than just the GOP and the Democrats.
In the US, the GOP and the Democrats have been pro zoning for decades, there is no other explanation for the massive zoning laws in almost all areas of the US.
I think it is also not proven that zoning is a policy that the rich have imposed against the interests of the middle and lower classes. This is a rather childish and populist explanation.
I think zoning exists because there is a lot of support for it in the middle class and the underclass. In fact, the biggest drivers of the anti-zoning movement seem to be very rich, privileged people who think they know what is best for the middle class and the underclass. Well, they don’t. And even if they would know, they still shouldn’t decide. Let the middle class and the underclass decide for themselves, and I guess so far they have made their choice.
21. August 2020 at 09:51
Christian, You said:
“I also don’t think the GOP positions have changed.”
Several problems here:
1. You are wrong.
2. You are totally uninformed. You read a random news article and think you are qualified to comment on a subject.
3. You believe what you want to believe, not what the evidence suggests.
Do you want to go through life with that degree of ignorance? Just believing anything that pops into your mind?
21. August 2020 at 18:38
Scott,
yes you’re talking about, for example, Ben Carson, who had a half-baked proposal on the table for several months. The proposal wasn’t very good, and also unrealistic, it never had a chance, and the fact that you believed in it only shows how naive you are in this regard.
It’s also not the GOP position in general, the GOP position for decades has always been that zoning must be decided at a local level. That’s their position in 2020 as well, nothing relevant has changed.
This is of course a position for zoning, which, as I said, is also evident from the fact that zoning exists close to everywhere in the US, relatively regardless of whether the GOP or the Democrats rule. There is no anti-zoning party, never was.
It wouldn’t make any sense for the suburban party GOP to be against zoning anyway, that would be like the Pope being against Catholicism, if you believe in something else, you are just naive.
22. August 2020 at 08:20
Christian, Further evidence of your ignorance. People that actually follow this issue know exactly what happened here. But feel free to go through life blissfully ignorant; you seem to enjoy it.