China travel tips
I visited China in October, and have a few comments for anyone planning a similar trip.
We flew China Airlines via Taipei, because the stupid US government restricts direct flights to China. My bags didn’t get beyond Taipei for 36 hours, so initially I just had the clothes on my back.
Each time I visit Beijing, the pollution seems less bad, although it’s hard to judge as it varies depending on the time of year. In general, the city looks more prosperous than in 2019 (my previous visit), but the pace of change has slowed from the early 2000s. The interiors of commercial buildings have improved much faster than the exteriors and sidewalk areas. The Chinese seem to put much more effort into the look of private spaces (say compared to Japan, where the outside areas are very well maintained.) Here’s a complex designed by the late Iraqi architect Hadid:
One of the biggest changes was the electrification of transport. Beijing was suddenly full of electric bikes and electric motor scooters. The city is far quieter than in 2019. Almost every Didi we took was electric (Didi is China’s Uber.)
I gave a number of talks while in Beijing, including two talks at the Central University of Finance and Economics, and also one at Tsinghua (often called the MIT of China.) I also gave a talk at the central bank, and was interviewed by Caixin, a business oriented media outlet.) I was also on a panel discussion at an IMF meeting. My message was to encourage China to steer away from fiscal stimulus, and instead rely on monetary policy.
In general, the Chinese students seemed far more eager to learn than students I’ve met in other places (including the US.) China was somewhat isolated during the Covid period, and there seems to be a real hunger to reconnect with the rest of the world. Compared to 2019, I saw far fewer westerners in Beijing, which is unfortunate.
We then left Beijing and traveled around China for ten days. Here are a few observations:
In most of the hotels, room service is done by robots. They look rather cute, although at first it’s a bit unnerving to stand next to a robot waiting to get into the elevator. But they are quite polite, allowing you to enter first. (Maybe they are Japanese robots.) Sorry, this video doesn’t show it move, as it was going to a different floor:
We took a high-speed train from Beijing to Xi’an, where we spent 4 days. In general, the high-speed network is a marvel of efficiency. The train stations have roughly 30 tracks, and they move vast numbers of people through the station each hour. Xian is a relatively pleasant university town with about 12 million people.
BTW, travel in China can be difficult if you are not part of a tour group, as things like admission to parks and museums can easily be sold out it you don’t purchase in advance. I benefited from having a wife that could but this stuff online—but it was even difficult for her, as blocks of tickets often sold out less than a minute after going on sale.
Among westerners, Xian is most famous for its army of terra cotta warriors. During the Tang Dynasty (i.e. the European Dark Ages), Xian (then called Chang’an) was the capital of China and the world’s largest city. The terra cotta army was only my third or fourth favorite sight in Xian. It is very impressive, but the crowds were so dense that it wasn’t as enjoyable as some other equally impressive sights. (If you wish to avoid the crush, there’s a nearby park with a Tang-era mausoleum that also has some warriors, and much smaller crowds.)
Even more enjoyable was the 14 km wall that surrounds the central city. At sunset you see lots of tourists (almost all Chinese), many of which are dressed in the traditional Tang Dynasty style (mostly women.) They rent the costumes and wigs in order to have their picture taken. The ancient city wall isn’t just extremely long, it’s huge—12 meters high and 12 meters wide.
My favorite sight was the area around Wild Goose Pagoda and especially the Tang Paradise park. If I tried to describe Tang Paradise it would sound like a schlocky Vegas attraction, but it’s actually a pretty stunning Tang dreamland.
(Imagine if instead of building the Venetian casino, Vegas had built an actual exact replica of the city of Venice. It would lack the historical “authenticity”, but it would still be a pretty amazing sight.)
Go to the park about an hour before sunset and stay until after dark. The views are dazzling. Then go back to the Wild Goose area if you like spectacular fountain light shows (I don’t.)
After visiting the terra cotta warriors, we stopped at Xi’an’s version of Beijing’s summer palace, which is well out into the suburbs. The grounds are pretty interesting, and in the evening there was a stunning outdoor stage show of a love story based on a Tang era poem. As China emerges from the austerity of the Mao era, the Chinese seem to gravitate toward extremely colorful and intricate light shows at night. In this park, they used lights to create the impression that an ancient hillside pagoda was floating in the sky.
We then took another high-speed train to Chongqing, a city of roughly 17 million. Along the way we passed though densely populated Sichuan province, which has a bit more rugged terrain than I expected, despite being extremely rich agricultural land. Chongqing’s geography is similar to Pittsburgh–the meeting of two rivers at a point of land—but it’s much hillier. We stayed in a hotel right at the point, with a design based on the Marina Sands in Singapore. (Not quite as nice, but far less expensive). Of all the cities in China, Chongqing is the one that most reminds me of Hong Kong. There are lots of skyscrapers clinging tightly to steep hillsides. Once again, there’s a very colorful light show along the river at night.
Some areas have almost a Blade Runner feel, like when the subway car goes out of the ground, into the air, and then shoots right through the middle of a high rise building (see video).
The streets in the central area are extremely crowded, more so than Beijing or Xian. My favorite parts included the walk along the river at night, and the old “mountain village”, also at night. Lots of things in China look better at night. But we did have an enjoyable afternoon at a bar high above the river, on a rare day of blue sky. You can get a wonderful meal at night at an outdoor restaurant overlooking the two rivers—at an extremely low price.
BTW, I saw a picture of a Borgesian book store in Chongqing, and decided to check it out. Don’t bother—it’s hard to find and looks less impressive than the pictures:
Then we took a low speed train to Zhangjiajie, in Hunan province. Even though it was daytime, we took a sleeper car, which is more comfortable.
In the West, Zhangjiajie is primarily known as the inspiration for the film Avatar. As is true of all the tourist sites we visited in China, it was extremely crowded. I’ve read that the economy is a bit weak in China, but with the reduction in international tourism, domestic tourism seems to be booming.
Compared to Western countries, the Chinese build much more impressive infrastructure in their parks. At one point we rode on roughly 15 escalators, one after another, carved inside tunnels in a steep mountain. Each was very long, the sort you might see in a London subway. They needed this because the extensive cable cars could not keep up with the volume of tourists. In the picture below, there are 999 steps leading up to the keyhole, which is larger than it looks. From there we took the 15 escalators to the top of the mountain, which is full of stuff like glass floored walkways hanging above vertical cliffs..
Back in Beijing, we saw a nice Matisse show at the 798 art district, one of my favorite parts of the city. Overall, however, the arts scene seems to have deteriorated in recent years, as the government seems to be emphasizing patriotic art over avant garde art. Four years ago, I saw one of my favorite contemporary art exhibitions at a museum across the street from 798. This time, the same museum showed a schlocky exhibition of recent Chinese landscape painting. In fairness, the crowds were 10 times higher for the bad art, so who am I to complain?
On previous visits to China, fashion seemed quite different from the West. Young women often wore frilly pastel colored outfits. On this trip the fashions seemed more similar to the West, with more women wearing dark colors like black.
When I go to China I always get a haircut. This time my usual place had closed down, but I found a cheaper place for $4.20. This Econlog post has more discussion of Chinese purchasing power. (TLDR—China is super inexpensive.)
On the way home, we stopped of for three days in Taiwan, which I described in a previous Econlog post. My favorite part of the trip was the old train we took in the northeastern part of the island. It reminded my of some very evocative scenes in films by Hou Hsiao-hsien, which show old trains creeping through green tunnels of vegetation. My wife confirmed that this was the train line used in those films. I suppose it won’t mean much to most people, but Hou Hsiao-hsien fans will know what I mean:
PS. I got a bad cold toward the end of the trip. People in Beijing told me it was probably the walking pneumonia that was going around. When I got home, I saw some slightly alarmist stories in the Western media about this outbreak. Here’s Bloomberg:
The rampant spread of mycoplasma has caused particular concern as many kids appear to not respond to azithromycin, which is commonly used to treat the infection. Among Chinese children, resistance to the antibiotic and others in the same class is more than 80%, the highest in the world, Yin Yudong, an infectious disease doctor at Chaoyang, told Beijing News earlier this month.
I’m not sure if this is what I had, but I can confirm that azithromycin didn’t work for me.
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11. December 2023 at 03:33
I went there four months ago, and it was hell on earth.
I like how you cherry pick the scenes. It’s like a tourist taking a picture of Times Square, Yosemite or the Grand Canyon, and then neglecting Chicago, Baltimore, San Francisco, Detroit, and Philadelphia.
You don’t want to share photos with your readers of children pooping on the streets? How about photos of people pushing each other in long lines, yelling and crying at the airport, or calling foreigners dogs?
No stories about the orwellian cameras that follow your every movement, the immigration officers that stare menacingly and make violent motions with their hands? How about photos of restaurants where people chew with their mouths open, throw food and garbage on the ground, and fight to get to the buffett first?
No stories about the slave labor, the organ transplants, the 99% conviction rate, the great firewall?
No stories about the density, the constant noise, the ghost cities of abandoned skycrapers?
All you have for your readers are the terracotta soldiers, and dystopian IMF panels?
This post is like a CCP funded advertisement.
11. December 2023 at 04:37
Thanks for this really great post and especially the pictures. The people and architecture of China are better than their leaders.
11. December 2023 at 06:01
Nice post. I went to those in February 2014 when I did a big loop around the country prior to the start of the spring semester of study abroad there (I also hit a few other places, including Chengdu, Guilin, and Wuhan). At that time the bullet train wasn’t as widespread, and I was a student anyway, so I did most of my travel on the older trains.
–It’s a bummer on 798. I’ve experienced that as well, first experiencing the it as a teenager in 2006 and then most recently in 2019. Definitely had deteriorated quite a bit over that time. Similar for the corresponding Shanghai art district, although the most recent time I saw that one was 2016.
–While the infrastructure in Chinese scenic areas is more advanced, I’ve never been the biggest fan of that, because it often feels like the scenic value is reduced precisely by all of that infrastructure. I really liked Jiuzhaigou in Sichuan as an incredible beautiful where they were a bit less intrusive with the man-made stuff (also, just biking around away from the built-up areas in Guilin). That said, Zhangjiajie is so incredible that I wasn’t too bothered and, additionally, it’s a big enough area that you can find slightly less built-up parts.
Re: the foaming and frothing post above. Scott certainly does present the good side, there are unpleasant and difficult aspects to traveling in China. People’s manners are often poor and likewise for hygiene. But, frankly, the country has gotten much cleaner, more developed, and better mannered even over the very short time span (13 years) of my visits to the country.
Also, I do like how the post above uses “Times Square” as an example of something good and cool and then follows it up by listing various purportedly hellish cities. Times Square is an incredibly bland tourist trap, whereas all of those listed cities have many, many great places (not saying they don’t have problems, but lumping them into one giant bucket of hellishness is hilarious).
11. December 2023 at 06:04
I always appreciate your travel posts. Thank you for this one.
11. December 2023 at 06:07
“We flew China Airlines via Taipei, because the stupid US government restricts direct flights to China.”
Was this a temporary restriction? I thought there are a decent number of direct flights between China and the USA on many different carriers. (Or is the restriction you are referring to specific to China Airlines and/or other airlines not based in China or the USA?)
11. December 2023 at 07:30
Do you feel like American tourists are treated worse than they were pre-Covid?
I visited as a tourist several times in the late 2010s and felt accepted and treated well, even though we don’t speak any Chinese. I’m concerned post-Trump that may have changed. I’m reluctant to return without knowing more.
11. December 2023 at 09:35
Ricardo, I discussed the firewall in a previous post.
JHE, Ricardo is a long time Russia troll.
Jonathan, This post explains the situation:
https://www.econlib.org/harrison-bergeron-in-the-skies/
Todd, I didn’t notice any difference. Most people in China wouldn’t even know if you are American of European.
11. December 2023 at 10:15
Thanks Tom and David.
JHE, I agree about Jiuzhaigou—my favorite place in China. I also like Guilin, Huangshan and of course Yunnan province.
Regarding problems with China travel–I covered those in earlier travel posts and saw no need to repeat myself. I agree that things are getting better.
11. December 2023 at 13:10
Thanks for the pictures and travelogue. Really appreciate your travel posts. One question: did you find the service better in Taiwan than China?
In my experience, I found the service to be the friendliest among all Chinese regions (including Singapore). I also found the people of Taiwan more open and more willing to engage in discourse than other Chinese places.
I also found Taiwan to be less technologically sophisticated than other places, which really surprised me. Taiwan has got great semiconductor fabs, but the SW infrastructure seemed so far behind the times. (I often found displays with a Windows error icon in places, the wireless access is not as fast as other places, contactless payment system not always available.). In general, Hong Kong and Singapore also seemed wealthier than Taiwan. I don’t know if you had similar impressions.
12. December 2023 at 05:15
Thanks, very interesting!
12. December 2023 at 05:19
LC, Singapore is a lot richer than both Hong Kong and Taiwan these days.
12. December 2023 at 09:24
[…] Scott Sumner visits China. And Scott on whether we will see a soft […]
12. December 2023 at 09:27
Nice travelogue. When I was in college I had a Chinese American friend say the same thing about taking a tour instead of going alone.
12. December 2023 at 09:32
LC, Yes, I agree.
12. December 2023 at 10:02
I don’t know about Ricardo, but while I’m officially paid by the Russian government to do research, and also play troll in my spare time, I enjoyed my recent business trip to China immensely.
12. December 2023 at 12:21
Interested to know if you thought it is necessary to take a burner phone instead of your usual phone?
Could you access the outside internet via a VPN while there?
12. December 2023 at 13:59
I lived in China for 7 years and visited most of Asia, I found China to be on the more unpleasant end of the comfort spectrum, similar to Myanmar. Lots of engineered marvels, natural beauty, and phenomenal food (street BBQ is the best in the world).
But not a lot of warmth, the cultural aspects feel like they’ve been created over the past 30 years (because they have). You’re never going to wander into a small shrine or a wedding or a musical act like you might in Thailand, Taiwan, or India.
I never visited 789 but besides the ancient stuff, China just felt culturally vacuous compared to its more interesting neighbors (including Hong Kong)
12. December 2023 at 15:10
Interesting. China can build infrastructure and has a low rate of street crime. Almost entirely a homogeneous nation, Han Chinese.
What if in the long run the US fails but China prevails but not due to grand ideologies but on practical matters?
12. December 2023 at 15:39
You’re wrong about the flights. The restriction on flights is a joint regulation between the Chinese and American government to ensure that neither country’s airlines are being overly favored. Perhaps you think that’s dumb and there should be an Open Skies treaty which basically allows unlimited flights by either country’s carrier but then your blame should be at least split between the US and the PRC. https://airlineweekly.skift.com/2023/09/u-s-airlines-expect-further-easing-of-china-flight-limits-this-winter/
12. December 2023 at 15:51
Mike, No, although I didn’t really make any phone calls while there. I used a VPN, but it stopped working after a couple days. If I were good with computers I could have fixed it, but I’m not. Any computer savvy person in China can access the internet with no problem. And the firewall is really weird, blocking the NYT and WSJ, but not CNN News or Fox News websites. The firewall just seems sort of symbolic, not sure what they are trying to do.
Andao, I agree that service is friendlier in places like Thailand and Japan. Even in US Chinatowns, service in restaurants tends to be more brusque than in other restaurants.
Strengths are scenery, ancient sites, and food. It’s also very safe, with little street crime. Downsides are the crowds, the bureaucracy, the pollution (which is improving now), and the less than friendly service. But what I like best is just seeing a world that’s very different from the West. This was more the case during the 1990s, when China was poor. Then you’d see all sorts of crazy things, which made the trip fascinating for anyone who likes to see the unusual. Now the Chinese are far better off, but the country is less distinctive to foreign visitors.
For its size, China is less culturally dynamic than places like South Korea. But it does have a lot to see, if you seek it out. Good art, some good film, etc. I saw a great modern dance performance in Beijing.
12. December 2023 at 16:04
Ben, No, I’m not wrong. We forced this deal on the Chinese.
And obviously I favor open skies, as would any economically literate person.
12. December 2023 at 19:43
Scott, is pretty good at avoiding all of the hot button topics.
He won’t mention anything about Biden’s corruption, Jewish deaths, calls for genocide by Harvard’s Nazi students, or DEI lunatics.
He’s been too busy writing about:
a) China good.
b) Orange man bad.
As if we don’t know his opinion on those two subjects.
Steven Pinker, Jordan Peterson, Alan Derhsowitz, Richard Dawkins and other high profile academics and public intellectuals like Glenn Loury and John McWhorter are all speaking out against the anti-science, radical left wing crusade that has captured University and corporations.
Will you actually have the courage to say anything, or will you continue to move further and further into the arms of the totalitarian left (CCP).
12. December 2023 at 21:08
Andao–I think that’s mostly true, but I will say that if you are a non-Chinese person who at least tries to speak Chinese people will be quite friendly. Especially in rural areas, people in general will often be very warm.
In contrast, Japan has produced a lot of interesting culture, but social interactions are far colder and more stiff than China.
“Interesting. China can build infrastructure and has a low rate of street crime. Almost entirely a homogeneous nation, Han Chinese.
What if in the long run the US fails but China prevails but not due to grand ideologies but on practical matters?”
Well, you could have made this statement many times throughout history about the U.S. vs. Country X, yet the U.S. often went on to do better in the future than Country X. That doesn’t mean that the U.S. doesn’t have problems, much less that there’s anything inevitable about continued U.S. primacy,* but it is a reminder to be careful about such predictions.
*If China became a democracy, or even a moderate authoritarian system it would pretty effortlessly become the #1 country in the world and that would be that (albeit maybe with some issues further down the line related to population sustainability). Scott’s general impression of China is mostly accurate, but I do think on stuff like censorship there is something a little blase about saying it’s easy to evade. While sure, a smart person with internet access can get information, the level of political repression and the amount of effort put into censorship in China goes far above and beyond almost anywhere else in the world (essentially only oddities like Eritrea, North Korea are comparable).
13. December 2023 at 03:24
“As China emerges from the austerity of the Mao era…”
I’m very surprised to see a line like that written in 2023. Mao died nearly 50 years ago.
I travelled extensively in China in the 1990s. Like then, it seems most of the pre-eminent sights are just ok and over crowded. I found the best experiences were off the beaten track.
13. December 2023 at 09:12
JHE, You said:
“there is something a little blase about saying it’s easy to evade.”
OK, but explain to me why China doesn’t block right wing (anti-China) sites like Fox, or left wing sites like CNN. Can you explain to me what they are trying to do with their firewall?
What information don’t they want Chinese readers to get?
I’m honestly confused. It reminds me of our TSA “security theatre”, just a bunch of bureaucrats checking some boxes.
Any Chinese person sophisticated enough to consume the NYT is perfectly able to use a VPN. The overwhelming majority of Chinese could not read the NYT, and don’t care about western news.
To be clear, I think the firewall is a really bad idea, as it makes China’s economy less efficient. So I’m strongly opposed to the firewall–it is certainly a hassle when trying to use computers in China. It interfered with my trip.
James, It takes a long time to transform a country of 1.4 billion people. I first noticed all the lights at night during the early 2000s
13. December 2023 at 10:08
I was in Beijing this summer. I carried my phone with my T-Mobile plan. I was pleasantly surprised to see if I use my T-Mobile data plan, there was no restriction at all. You don’t even need a vpn. However on wifi, everything was blocked.
13. December 2023 at 10:18
Bob, I did the same, to some extent. But I rely on my laptap, as I find it hard to do things like blogging on my phone. I was usually able to link my laptop to my phone, but sometimes it didn’t work.
I almost never use my iPhone at home (except for calls), so when I travel I find it hard to use the internet with my phone.
13. December 2023 at 11:04
About the firewall, my impression is that they have three levels of censorship: allow, filter and block. Even though you can watch CNN, I wonder if you could watch a feature about the Uighurs. It’s true it’s relatively easy to circumvent for tech-savvy Chinese, but that still leaves large swaths of the population effectively blocked. Lastly, they may be losing the arms-race against the VPNs, but governments are slow to change. I’m sure decades after it has become irrelevant, the firewall will continue to run due to bureaucratic inertia.
Andao, interesting comment about weddings. I’ve walked into outside wedding scenes in China, though admittedly they might have been staged.
13. December 2023 at 11:14
Can you explain to me what they are trying to do with their firewall?
What information don’t they want Chinese readers to get?
I’m honestly confused….
[ The answer is simple.
The United States has been waging an economic war against Chinese technology advance and Chinese development since April 2011 and the passing of the Wolf Amendment. US attacks have increased in intensity since 2011. What the Chinese government wants generally understood, is just how much disdain and animosity is being directed against China by prominent vehicles such as the NYTimes or Washington Post or Wall Street Journal.
China will be just fine and US efforts will prove futile and likely self-defeating, but unfortunately there has been and is a need to show disapproval of US antagonistic efforts. ]
13. December 2023 at 11:16
Great photos and description of your visit. I always enjoy your travel details.
Are you ever unnerved traveling in a country with a justice system that is far inferior to the US? In your extended social network (including native Chinese), do you know of anyone doing jail time in China falsely?
13. December 2023 at 11:42
Henri, I’m not talking about TV, I’m talking about the internet news sites of these companies.
You said:
“It’s true it’s relatively easy to circumvent for tech-savvy Chinese, but that still leaves large swaths of the population effectively blocked.”
These people would not read the NYT even if it was not blocked. On the other hand, they might read Chinese language news in Taiwan, etc., so I am not saying it has no effect.
CA, You said:
“What the Chinese government wants generally understood, is just how much disdain and animosity is being directed against China by prominent vehicles such as the NYTimes or Washington Post or Wall Street Journal.”
Then why block them?
“The United States has been waging an economic war against Chinese technology advance and Chinese development since April 2011 and the passing of the Wolf Amendment. US attacks have increased in intensity since 2011.”
I agree with you on this point, it’s unfortunate.
Travis, There are always risks in travel, but I’d say it’s much safer to travel in China than in the US. China has a very low rate of violent crime in public. Where there are crime problems (domestic abuse, fraud, etc.) they are less of a risk to tourists.
“do you know of anyone doing jail time in China falsely?”
I don’t personally know of any, but then I’ve never travelled to areas such as Xinjiang province, so I’m not well informed on areas where these abuses tend to occur most often.
13. December 2023 at 11:55
Can you explain to me what they are trying to do with their firewall?
What information don’t they want Chinese readers to get?
I’m honestly confused….
[ Remember, the Chinese are technically adept and becoming rapidly more so. Simply look to the Nature Index to find just how technically adept the Chinese are. The Chinese firewall is simply an important symbol, but the Chinare are not intimidated by or even concerned with ceaselessly antagonistic NYTimes writings.
Concern is however reflected by the expressed antagonism of a Gina Raimondo, who may even now be pushing to capture another Huawei executive to try to undermine Chinese 5G+ development and chip design. ]
13. December 2023 at 12:05
I’ve never travelled to areas such as Xinjiang province, so I’m not well informed on areas where these abuses * tend to occur most often.
* Human rights abuses
[ The point is that repeatedly many, many visitors from all over China and from surrounding and distant countries have come to Xinjiang and found a markedly content populace and remarkable development. Xinjiang attracts millions of visitors yearly. ]
13. December 2023 at 12:17
This is what China has accomplished these last 45 years, as, say, a Brad DeLong has waited for collapse and for China to lose 10 to 50 years in development.
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/?g=16TkM
August 4, 2014
Real per capita Gross Domestic Product for China, United States, India, Japan and Germany, 1977-2022
(Indexed to 1977)
Notice a little of what China has accomplished in space after the Wolf Amendment and after the NYTimes wrote of the futility of Chinese observatory development because there were too few Chinese astronomers who would know how to use the observatories:
https://news.cgtn.com/news/2023-12-13/China-builds-world-s-largest-neutral-hydrogen-catalog-in-deep-space-1pvdts5yVUc/index.html
December 13, 2023
China builds world’s largest neutral hydrogen catalog in deep space
13. December 2023 at 14:52
If China became a democracy, or even a moderate authoritarian system it would pretty effortlessly become the #1 country in the world and that would be that (albeit maybe with some issues further down the line related to population sustainability)….
[ Just outlining…
Chinese citizens regard China as democratic. As for the country with the largest GDP, that has been China since 2016. China is now more than 20% larger than the US.
As for population sustainability, China has managed these 5,000 years, and is food and energy independent. China has extensive trade relations and trade facility, and is not about to ever be “contained.” A significant amount of Chinese investment is in agricultural production, the development of non-polluting energy resources, and resource protection about the country.
China devotes relatively more spending to investment than any country I am aware of, much to the discomfort of the likes of a Paul Krugman, to secure the future well-being of the 1.4 billion. For instance, water conservancy investment means more than $100 billion yearly; greening investment extends from Inner Mongolia, to Xinjiang, even to Wuhan wetlands…
13. December 2023 at 16:35
Scott,
I knew you didn’t mean TV, but you mentioned CNN, so I assumed you meant their streaming service. I’m pretty sure the firewall has filters for multimedia. I agree almost no Chinese are interested in NYT, but at least in my experience, they prolifically share links on their social media. The government wants to control that. Especially since many of their groups on social media have members both in and out of China.
13. December 2023 at 18:28
Even though you can watch CNN, I wonder if you could watch a feature about the Uighurs….
[ Good grief; the Chinese know just how far Western prejudice about Xinjiang extends. Chinese repeatedly and correctly report on this. As for the peoples of Xinjiang, they are often correctly portrayed on Chinese media.
There were over 50 million visitors to Xinjiang this year between January and April… Xinjiang is becoming an increasingly popular tourist destination as well as a critical regional port. ]
13. December 2023 at 18:49
I come to think China will be fine when Texas gets done handling CCP. It’s 1976 (Reagan lost), BUT we’re headed into 1980-2008 rightward drift.
Eyeballing it, Mills are right about where Boomers weree headed in 76 towards about 12% of national wealth in 1980- and we’re about to inherit close to $40T by 2030? and $68T in total?
So, I don’t think it will be pretty, but I’ve become less worried about CCP with Texas taking over leading US, think like 1940 CA- in 20 years it will rule US policy completely. And I’m confident Texas has the right carrot/stick mindset to handle a mafia state.
Nice photos Scott. When I was last there I kept meeting ladies who spoke English with fake tits. I don’t know why you think a Russian troll would shit on your China PR. Would like to hear that take!
13. December 2023 at 18:53
“OK, but explain to me why China doesn’t block right wing (anti-China) sites like Fox, or left wing sites like CNN. Can you explain to me what they are trying to do with their firewall?
What information don’t they want Chinese readers to get?
I’m honestly confused. It reminds me of our TSA “security theatre”, just a bunch of bureaucrats checking some boxes.”
I have heard this before from other foreigners and honestly it is a little embarrassing. You are not the target of the firewall and the censorship. The language of China is not English, it is Chinese. The level of censorship in English is minimal compared to the incredibly extensive censorship of Chinese language content and platforms. Of course many Chinese can read English and they often use it for business or technical work, but at a basic level the population gets their information by reading the news outlets and social media sources in their native language, which, to repeat, is subject to a regime of control vastly more extensive than what exists for English.
Also, I can’t say I agree with the CCP troll on the “economic war” point. The U.S. and China have at various points both undertaken exceedingly discriminatory measures against the other. Trying to blame one side is kind of a chicken-egg thing (state-sponsored technology theft by China may be a bit exaggerated, but it’s absolutely real, and on a more basic level China undertook severe protectionist and discriminatory measures in a variety of sectors long before the actions that the CCP troll is complaining about).
As for the CCP troll’s other arguments, it’s the usual tactic of trying to conflate the achievements of the Chinese people (great) and its hideous government. Part of the reason growth was so rapid more recently is that the economy was strangled by the CCP itself for decades. Just look at how desperately poor South Korea was in 1953, there’s no reason China couldn’t where South Korea is today if it hadn’t been run by the CCP. Just look at what Chinese people do outside of China compared to inside China.
The CCP troll also makes some strange arguments regarding being food and energy “independent,” especially regarding energy. Much of China’s rapid growth is precisely because it has forsaken disastrous “self-sufficiency” policies. China is incredibly energy ‘dependent’, not independent, as are other various successful economies. We again see the disconnect between CCP propaganda that highlights autarky vs. the actual reality of China’s success. One of the reasons China’s growth increased after joining the WTO was not merely the opening of export markets, but rather than China had to lower import tariffs in many areas and this greatly benefited many manufacturers that previously had been hobbled by being limited to lower-quality/higher-priced inputs.
Finally, statements like “Chinese people think they live in a democracy” are meaningless drivel. First, there is the obvious issue of what you can do for a reliable survey in a country with such extensive political controls. And, even if you set that aside entirely, there are very basic objective metrics you can use to compare countries. Not vibes or feel, just basic criteria regarding elections, press freedom; of course there is a little bit of wiggle room in the exact rankings, but there is really no ambiguity for China (unlike a country like, say, Singapore, where people can fiercely debate the extent to which it is or isn’t authoritarian).
13. December 2023 at 18:54
Interestingly, Volkswagen just commissioned an independent study of work conditions in the VW plant in Xinjiang. The study of course showed just how well the workers were being treated, each and every VW worker in Xinjiang.
The work condition study results were announced and immediately rejected in the US and Germany. Such is the pervasive influence of prejudice against the Chinese.
At least though the German business community understands how important for Germany working closely with the Chinese is.
13. December 2023 at 19:03
Finally, statements like “Chinese people think they live in a democracy” are meaningless drivel….
[ No matter, this simply amounts to trying reason with a George Wallace posing outside a school door where Black students were supposed to be allowed to enter.
I appreciate the opportunity to try to gently explain, though.
China is and will be just fine. ]
13. December 2023 at 19:14
When I was last there I kept meeting ladies who spoke English with fake….
[ The need to strike out, against a benign 5,000 year old civilization of 1.4 billion… Amazing, the crude prejudice. ]
13. December 2023 at 19:33
When I was last there I kept meeting ladies who spoke English with fake….
[ The need to strike out against women is also shocking. ]
13. December 2023 at 19:38
The invocation of George Wallace is telling, because really the entire CCP argument is that Chinese people are somehow incapable of not only exercising voting rights in a responsible manner, but also so immature must be sheltered from dangerous information by means of a massive censorship and political control apparatus almost unmatched anywhere else in the world. It’s not a matter of comparison to western or white countries as the troll suggests, but rather that China is less politically free and less democratic than almost anywhere else in the world.*
*Of course, China compares well to the world in many regards, social cohesion, low-crime, education being obvious examples. But those are from the Chinese people, not the parasitic and repressive leadership.
14. December 2023 at 10:12
God, the comments on here are pretty darn toxic compared to other venues.
Last time I was in Beijing (early 2020), almost all of the scooters there were electric. I wonder what explains the discrepancy with your experience in 2019.
14. December 2023 at 10:44
CA, LOL. And I get accused of being a paid agent of the CCP!
Henri, No, I am talking about their news articles, not video.
JHE, It seems you are agreeing with my point that most Chinese don’t read English language media. If they unblocked the NYT, WSJ, etc., almost nothing in China would change. The real problem is the blocking of Chinese language material.
I agree that the Chinese people are way ahead of the Chinese government.
Mira, Maybe I have a bad memory. Before 2019, my previous trip was 2012. But the use of electric cars has clearly exploded, even since 2019.
14. December 2023 at 10:47
JHE, I agree that China is also too protectionist. But I don’t think China puts much effort into sabotaging the US economy. The US has far more control over the world economy than does China. We can essentially order countries like Japan and the Netherlands to join in our sanctions. I suppose China could tell North Korea to boycott us.
14. December 2023 at 19:21
Could you write another post summarizing the argument of your talks in Beijing, about fiscal vs monetary policy for China right now? Conventional wisdom is favoring fiscal so interested in your perspective.
14. December 2023 at 20:30
Andrew, The short answer is that monetary stimulus is far less costly, as it doesn’t increase the public debt. (China has debt problems.) China’s not even at the zero lower bound, so that’s not an issue.
Fiscal stimulus can also lead to wasteful infrastructure/housing projects in China.
Maybe I’ll do a post.
16. December 2023 at 12:27
The mainlanders from China are the most feared tourists in the world.
I’ve been in Singaporean taxi’s, Nigerian taxi’s, korean Taxi’s, japanese Taxi’s, and they all complain about the Mainland Chinese. They scream, threaten people, poop in the street, don’t pay their bills, throw trash in the street, and constantly spit loogies on the ground. The whole spitting thing is quite bizarre.
But I will say this: for every nasty mainland Chinese netizen spitting and shitting in the street, you have two nasty Americans.
We are so degenerate that we apparently have sex in congress. A staffer (democrat of course) recently filmed himself having gay sex at the U.S. capitol, in the judiciary room no less.
And then, if that wasn’t nasty enough, he posted his exploits online.
When asked why, he wrote: “I’m going through a difficult time right now”
Of coures, that is your typical “woke comment.” From drugs to thugs, to prostitutes and grosstitudes, to gay sex in judiciary rooms, people are just “having a hard time.”
It would be funny, if it wasn’t taken seriously by judicial activists who would like to see “having a hard time” become a legitimate defense.
I’ve suffered from affliction in my life, as we all have, but I don’t remember that affliction causing me to have sex at my workplace.
So before we criticize the Chinese, we might want to look at ourselves.
18. December 2023 at 22:36
Have you been to the Paris ghost city in Tianducheng?
I wonder if these ghost cities are part of the GDP. I mean, the debt for these chinese real estate companies must be astronomical.
How can a private company build a city the size of paris, lose billions, and still remain in business? No tenants? No buyers?
And it’s not the only one. There are many of these ghost cities.
There has to be a collapse coming.
18. December 2023 at 22:48
Sara, Some trolls are so bad they become unintentionally funny.
Mikhail, “How can a private company build a city the size of paris”
Yes, there’s plenty of ghost cities, but don’t believe everything you read.