A celebration of diversity

Years ago, I used to read a book to my (half-Chinese) daughter entitled, “And to Think That I Saw It on Mulberry Street”. It was Geisel’s first children’s book. As you probably know, that book has now been cancelled. Others have already pointed to the utter insanity of this book still being under copyright. (It was first published in 1937.) Extending copyright protection beyond 20 years makes America both less efficient and less equal—a lose/lose proposition.

The story itself is a celebration of diversity. The world is so much more interesting when there are all kinds of people to look at. Here’s the offending picture:

The picture is a bit offensive by today’s standards, but most of the problems were solved years ago. Here’s what the picture looked like in the edition I own, from 1991:

America used to be able to do things. We sent men to the moon, built subways and airports and interstate highways. We built houses for working class people in coastal cities. Now we’ve forgotten how to do those things, although it’s rumored that there are manuscripts explaining how that are preserved in lonely monastaries hugging the windswept coast of Maine.

In the old days, we knew how to fix a book that had become dated. Perhaps “sticks” should be “chopsticks”. But it doesn’t matter, as today we’d rather just cancel the book and engage in self-righteous moral grandstanding.


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58 Responses to “A celebration of diversity”

  1. Gravatar of Lizard Man Lizard Man
    2. March 2021 at 21:04

    “ America used to be able to do things. We sent men to the moon, built subways and airports and interstate highways. We built houses for working class people in coastal cities. Now we’ve forgotten how to do those things, although it’s rumored that there are manuscripts explaining how that are preserved in lonely monastaries hugging the windswept coast of Maine.

    In the old days, we knew how to fix a book that had become dated”

    In China, they not only do they know how to do all those things, they can even change a book as dated as the Bible.

  2. Gravatar of Bob Bob
    2. March 2021 at 21:51

    Note that all this stuff is covered heavily in conservative circles, while the vast majority of democratic voters don’t care in the slightest. Neither outrage, nor celebration.

    The story is probably recoverable. Tintín in Congo, probably not. Either way, it’s hard to care in a world flooded with media.

    In general, it’s incredibly easy to get very slanted views on culture war bs. Note that what is valuable is to get you angry. Be more worried about what nonsense people tell to their followers, than about what they say the other side cares about. NYT saying unwise things to their readers? Sure. Hannity selling insanity? Why not. But Seuss canceling covered 99% on right wing media, not so much.

  3. Gravatar of Michael Michael
    2. March 2021 at 23:43

    Why was the Manchu queue taken off the picture of the Chinaman? It’s not like the 1991 illustration gave him modern clothing.

  4. Gravatar of Ralph Musgrave Ralph Musgrave
    3. March 2021 at 02:13

    According to lefties, it’s a crime against humanity to question the wonders of diversity – in the case of Western countries. But curiously, lefties remain ENTIRELY UNMOVED by the fact that China and Japan are HIGHLY UN-DIVERSE, at least in the sense that Europeans, Africans etc form an absolutely MINUTE proportion of the population of China & Japan.

    And that’s just the millionth bit of evidence that what motivates lefties is a desire to destroy or at least drastically change their own country and culture, with a view to drawing attention to themselves. After all: if you’re too lacking in any sort of talent to draw attention to yourself by doing something seriously useful, then at least you can draw attention to yourself by trying to destroy or drastically change your own country.

  5. Gravatar of Tizio Tizio
    3. March 2021 at 05:45

    Scott, the things you listed that we’ve done in the past are things already accomplished. Now people have moved on to other things. The moment the government starts sending people back to the Moon or building subways is the exact moment Conservatives start whining about how much they cost. Middle class housing in costal cities disappeared with the manufacturing jobs in those cities and the invention of the air conditioner, allowing people to move to cheaper, more Souther parts of the country. Herein lies the true reason why our country is so quickly declining, the cultural Southernification of the country.

  6. Gravatar of JHE JHE
    3. March 2021 at 05:54

    Ralph Musgrave: I think that has more to do with people caring about their own countries/countries they see as close to their own. Having actually lived in China, there were few things young white expats loved to talk about more than how retrograde the views of Chinese people on racial/cultural issues were.

    Scott: Replying to both this and another similar post you made recently. Victories for rationality, openness, and/or creativity almost inevitably lead to a pushback from countervailing forces emphasizing some combination of morality, conformity, and/or emotion (Enlightenment/Romanticism; Lorenzo de Medici/Savonarola; Early Capitalism/Socialism and there are thousands more examples). What’s going on now is about as normal as death and taxes.

  7. Gravatar of bb bb
    3. March 2021 at 06:12

    Scott,
    You’re just getting triggered. This is dumb, but in the grand scheme of things, it’s just one publisher making a dumb decision. And we sent a drone to mars. And we found a vaccine to a global pandemic in less than a year. Airports, subways, and interstates required federal spending, which you are opposed to.
    BTW, we built houses for working class WHITE people in coastal cities. The world is a better place today than it was back then.

  8. Gravatar of sean sean
    3. March 2021 at 08:23

    Leftist don’t even see the critiques. Watching CNN its 24/7 racism, racism, racism. White supremacists, white supremacists. They convince their audience that 40% of the population still wants to lynch people.

    I don’t agree with Trumps nativism, but its no where close to where they tell their viewers our current racial conditions.

  9. Gravatar of steve steve
    3. March 2021 at 09:45

    man who goes through turnstile sideways, going to Bangkok

  10. Gravatar of ssumner ssumner
    3. March 2021 at 11:37

    Lizard, Yes, there’s a lot of non-PC stuff that needs to be removed from that book!

    Bob, I cover both sides, unlike the left and right wing media.

    Ralph, Our culture is diverse—always has been. Diversity is as American as apple pie.

    Tizio, Check out the price of housing in coastal cities—lack of demand doesn’t explain the lack of construction.

    bb, We have plenty of money; we simply forgot how to build.

    JHE, I agree.

  11. Gravatar of Christian List Christian List
    3. March 2021 at 12:05

    @bb

    it’s just one publisher making a dumb decision.

    Oh come on, that’s ridiculous, it’s clearly not an isolated incident

    @JHE

    What’s going on now is about as normal as death and taxes.

    That is not the point. The question is which side is winning right now? There is no inner mechanism that determines that rationality and openness will win in the end.

    When you look at the current situation in America, you have to wonder if rationality is even represented anymore. The Trump camp speaks out against the irrationality of the Democrats, but is itself highly irrational. The same is true of the Biden camp, who speaks out against the Trump insanity but not a single word against the insanity in his own camp. Not a single word from Biden on this, don’t you even notice this?

    Where is Biden’s promised outreach? Where is the moderation? He could win millions of people from the center and most of the moderates, he could reconcile America, if only he would attack both radical sides. After all, a lot of people voted for Trump because they saw no other way out, not because they really thought he was great. The Trump camp would be pulverized.

    But he doesn’t do that, even though he’s already a lame duck who will never be re-elected, so he could say what he really thinks. Since this is the case, one must assume that he supports the radical left camp. This camp is not contrary to his ideology at all, this is how he actually thinks – otherwise he would say so.

    The third camp, Scott Sumner’s camp, which takes aim at both irrationalities, is a small minority. Similar situations exist in other Western countries. I have my doubts that this is the normal course of history.

    At the moment the irrational camp is clearly winning because it is represented by two large majorities that apparently cannot be eliminated so easily. It is a bit “Weimar Republic light”, when at that time one had the “choice” between communism and Nazism.

  12. Gravatar of Randomize Randomize
    3. March 2021 at 13:14

    Rather than have a Chinese man as part of the spectacle (that’s a little weird, isn’t it?) might I suggest “an excited tourist taking pics?” That changes the story so that the man is enjoying the spectacle instead of part of it.

  13. Gravatar of Gene Frenkle Gene Frenkle
    3. March 2021 at 13:14

    Let’s all agree that the Chinese character in the movie Breakfast at Tiffany’s is racist. So we should all agree that some things done in the past don’t belong in the present.

  14. Gravatar of Mark Z Mark Z
    3. March 2021 at 13:46

    I still find it offensive: “white” people are not *that* pale, and the stereotype that we’re all in marching bands is very problematic.

  15. Gravatar of Ray Lopez Ray Lopez
    3. March 2021 at 14:07

    SS: “years ago, I used to read a book to my (half-Chinese) daughter entitled” – racism noted. In France it’s illegal to even mention race, a social construct (DNA is identical between the three races, except for the DNA for minor stuff like skin color). But even worse than Sumner’s racism, he believes that money is not neutral. This attitude is bound to lead to hyperinflation (where money indeed is not neutral).

  16. Gravatar of Christian List Christian List
    3. March 2021 at 14:40

    @Gene

    Let’s all agree that the Chinese character in the movie Breakfast at Tiffany’s is racist.

    Would the same be said in 2021 if the character was a positive, likable figure? No matter how unrealistic. I could be wrong, but my impression is, no one cries when a minority character is portrayed in a very positive way, for whatever absurd reason. But if the character is negative, an unlikable antagonist, then of course it is “racism”.

    @Ray

    DNA is identical between the three races, except for the DNA for minor stuff like skin color.

    I agree. Only minor stuff like skin color and bone structure. And the effect of medication. Evolution has been very careful to differ only in genes that would be considered politically correct in 2021. I’m glad that evolution got the memo.

  17. Gravatar of Effem Effem
    3. March 2021 at 17:50

    Why “do things” when stagnation is so great for wealth (via asset prices)?

  18. Gravatar of Dale Doback Dale Doback
    3. March 2021 at 20:25

    This book is not cancelled and this is a stupid narrative to spread. You can rent it from your library right now. If you are worried about cancelling books you should take a look at right wing evangelicals who are actually responsible for most censorship, usually around books featuring LGBT characters.

  19. Gravatar of bb bb
    4. March 2021 at 08:10

    Christian,
    “Oh come on, that’s ridiculous, it’s clearly not an isolated incident”
    Really? Everyone at CPAC seems to by obsessed with this children’s book Why aren’t they talking about all the other, more compelling, examples?
    The truth is that cancel culture is way worse on the right. Local republican parties censuring their Congress People for criticizing the president? Or for upholding their constitution duty to vote their conscience on impeachment. Censuring private citizens like Cindy McCain. Making death threats to election officials and their families. And don’t get me started on Colin Kaeperneck.
    Germany actually has laws against certain types of speech. Germany also has much lower thresholds for defamation, particularly for public figures. Do you think that system is better, or do you consider it statutory cancel culture?

  20. Gravatar of bb bb
    4. March 2021 at 08:25

    Scott,
    “We have plenty of money; we simply forgot how to build”
    We developed and deployed three vaccines in less than a year. BTW: The Federal government is largely responsible for the mRNA vaccines.
    And the single family home project you seem to yearn for was a racist project. I would love to see housing reform, but I have a hard time looking back to the creation of the suburbs as a model. It did tremendous harm to African Americans. I prefer vaccines to redlining.
    I also think death threats and destroying a person’s ability to earn a living is much more concerning than taking a book that was written by a dead guy out of print.
    BTW; your book is selling for $500 on Amazon. Maybe markets will convince the publisher to reverse course. My prediction is that this book will be made available within 3 months.

  21. Gravatar of David J Schuler David J Schuler
    4. March 2021 at 08:28

    I’m still trying to figure out what the objection to the illustration is. When I was a kid (which wasn’t all that much later than when Mulberry Street was written), we used to go to the back door of a Chinese restaurant for carryout. There were men working there who wore queues. I loved them. The would play with me.

    Is it that they don’t like depictions of men wearing queues or Geisel’s version of traditional garb which for all I know isn’t that far off?

  22. Gravatar of ssumner ssumner
    4. March 2021 at 10:21

    Gene, You said:

    “So we should all agree that some things done in the past don’t belong in the present.”

    Yes.

    Dale, If you are excusing cancel culture by pointing to cancel culture on the other side, then you are part of the problem. If you criticize both sides then you are part of the solution.

    bb, You said:

    “We developed and deployed three vaccines in less than a year.”

    And then forgot how to actually give people the vaccine in a timely fashion. In the old days, entire cities like NYC were vaccinated in a short period of time. Israel is still able to do so.

    The rest of your comment is beyond absurd. The federal government slowed vaccine development—which would have occurred far faster in a free market with no FDA and no price controls. And home building for working class people is racist? LOL.

    David, There are some people who wake up every morning, eagerly seeking out things to be offended by.

  23. Gravatar of Christian List Christian List
    4. March 2021 at 13:38

    @Dale and bb
    The book is basically cancelled. Even the NYT says so. What you guys are doing is such classical whataboutism it’s absurd.

    And accusing Scott of basically not talking enough about the Trump “culture” is beyond absurd. He criticizes this on an on-going basis. He’s been one of the most dedicated critics since the very beginning.

    But that’s not the topic of the blog entry, and all you guys can do is whataboutism and denial. This is what happens when you are ideologically trapped in one of the two camps I mentioned.

  24. Gravatar of Dale Doback Dale Doback
    4. March 2021 at 14:15

    Dr Seuss isn’t cancelled. I’m not excusing anything. There are real examples of censorship and this isn’t one of them. This is culture war nonsense.

  25. Gravatar of Christian List Christian List
    4. March 2021 at 15:21

    @Dale
    You said the book wasn’t canceled. Now it’s Dr. Seuss. Make up your mind. When you’re refuted, you suddenly switch positions and pretend you didn’t write what you wrote.

    And all the rest was typical whataboutism, not as extreme as from bb who suddenly wanted to talk about Germany’s (!) absurd laws, but still a typical tu quoque logical fallacy.

  26. Gravatar of ssumner ssumner
    4. March 2021 at 15:36

    Dale, I don’t think you know what the term ‘cancelled’ means. It does not mean legally banned. The term means that important parts of society are trying to suppressed something. It could be an employer, or a university, or some other organization. If the publisher stops printing the book I cited, that is effectively being cancelled as the term is generally used.

    I am certainly not denying that the publisher has the right to stop printing the book. Nor am I denying that Trump and his gang are far worse than the loony left.

  27. Gravatar of bb bb
    4. March 2021 at 16:07

    Scott,
    mRNA vaccine technology was almost entirely developed by NIH scientists and NIH financed projects. Without NIH, there is no vaccine.
    Second in the mid-century, the US did embark on a campaign to expand home ownership through programs like FHA. This project explicitly excluded black people. That’s racist. This project also hollowed out our cities due to “white flight”. And redlining did happen.
    The Capitol was on lockdown today, and you’re whining about a children’s book being cancelled. I find that absurd.

  28. Gravatar of bb bb
    4. March 2021 at 16:29

    Christian,
    I give you a nod on the whataboutism point. I have not been following this story, but I’m guessing the publisher was in same inspired to make this move because of the recent uptick in anti-asian sentiment and violence. They own the rights to the book. If they choose to forgo revenue in order to make a point, I’m fine with that. I’m also fine with Christian bakers refusing the make gay wedding cakes. This book appears to be the number one issue for republicans, which I think is absurd. I also think it is absurd that Scott links cancelling this book to our inability to build airports, highways, subways and to do housing reform.

  29. Gravatar of ankh ankh
    4. March 2021 at 16:40

    In Thailand, westerners are always drawn with ridiculously big noses.
    In Cambodia, westerners are drawn in ragged clothes & are usually drunk resembling the typical disposition of the backpackers and drug dealers they generally meet.

    These cultural depictions are not racist. They never have been.
    They simply highlight differences between our people.

    In an effort to create a world of purity, you are going down the same path as Hitler and Mao. I am not sure why you don’t see it. But censoring books and forcing artists to change their depictions is a dangerous proposition.

  30. Gravatar of ankh ankh
    4. March 2021 at 16:46

    Americans also drawn with humongous bellies, which may be offensive but is mostly true. After all, the typical American tourist is extraordinarily fat, and dresses like a slob.

    Artists have a right to exaggerate slightly, and depict these attributes without a Maoist totalitarian forcing them to “comply” with some government mandated version.

    Such a world of purity, would be a very uncreative world to live in. Dr. Seuss is an amazing and creative author. One that all Americans should be proud of.

  31. Gravatar of ankh ankh
    4. March 2021 at 16:58

    Many American men go to Thailand to have sex with children, so much of the population also concludes that American men are untrustworthy, crude, and disgusting. Not just their bellies, but their minds too.

    The point of this is not too harangue the American man, but to simply point out that every culture places stereo types on foreigners. You are so sensitive to the feelings of Thai people in America, or Mexican in America, but nobody will show you such sensitivity when you come here.

    You are what you are. Fat with big noses.

    And we are generally timid, and avoid confrontation. That is all true. Hence, the reason for the stereotype.

    Do not create this pure fantasy world. It is very dangerous for your country, and for the world.

  32. Gravatar of Todd Kreider Todd Kreider
    4. March 2021 at 20:27

    Scott: “And then forgot how to actually give people the vaccine in a timely fashion. In the old days, entire cities like NYC were vaccinated in a short period of time. Israel is still able to do so.”

    The U.S. is moving at a pretty fast rate. Where is your evidence that NYC used to be a fast vaccinator for the 1957 and 1968 pandemics?

    Oh, what do you think of the banana republics of Canada or of those in the EU that have only vaccinated 3% of their populations? Too many humanity majors or economists there?

  33. Gravatar of ted ted
    5. March 2021 at 00:37

    “Second in the mid-century, the US did embark on a campaign to expand home ownership through programs like FHA. This project explicitly excluded black people.”

    – No it didn’t. Nobody explicitly excluded anyone. They didn’t have the money to repay the loans, nor did they have a good track record of paying loans they had borrowed previously. Blacks, Chinese & Mexicans had higher default rates than Whites, Arabs, and Japanese, hence most of the loans went to smart money. It wasn’t about race. It was about collateral, honesty, and ability to pay back. Blacks who fit that criteria did receive a loan. There just were not that many of them. Most were trying to become gangsters, and unfortunately that is not a job descriptions loan officers like to see on the application form: namely, because its unstable. Nobody wants to give a loan to someone who might be shot next month.

    “The Capitol was on lockdown today, and you’re whining about a children’s book being cancelled. I find that absurd.”

    – The Capitol is on lockdown because democrats are grandstanding. It’s entirely partisan. However, even if the threat was legitimate, canceling books is never the solution. The book is not the cause. Bad policies are. And might look at Dr. Seuss and say “but it’s one book”. That is what people said about Mao and Hitler. Didn’t turn out too well for them. Books don’t get banned in a free society.

  34. Gravatar of foosion foosion
    5. March 2021 at 03:28

    The owners of the copyright decided to stop publishing a work they owned. They did this voluntarily. Some disagree with their decision and their reasons. The horror!

    “Cancel culture” seems a rather vague term. From what I can tell it means something you like is no longer available and you want to portray the unavailability as a general societal failing. Does it have a more precise meaning?

  35. Gravatar of David Schuler David Schuler
    5. March 2021 at 08:03

    David, There are some people who wake up every morning, eagerly seeking out things to be offended by.

    The way to respond to such people is to encourage them to seek treatment. Knuckling under to them will not mollify them–they’ll only find something else by which to be offended.

  36. Gravatar of bill bill
    5. March 2021 at 09:18

    The publisher should sell the copyright.
    Copyright laws should provide that if you stop using the right, it goes to the public domain. Something like that is a condition that actually applies to real property.
    Check this out: https://i.pinimg.com/originals/a2/bc/a9/a2bca9b77fb10a3b91238714f3563539.jpg

  37. Gravatar of ssumner ssumner
    5. March 2021 at 09:56

    Everyone, All these leftists who are hysterical because I dared to criticize the publisher of Dr. Suess need to get a life. It’s just a blog post, and no one has told me why my opinion is wrong. I’m not interested in your “whataboutisms”. It’s my blog and I’ll talk about what I wish to talk about.

    bb, I never even mentioned the FHA. Can you stick to the topic, without criticizing things I never said? Is that so hard to do? If you are a NIMBY then just say so. If not, then don’t criticize my objection to NIMBYism.

    And the federal government has greatly slowed the response to Covid, so I certainly would not be citing them as some sort of hero.

    Todd, There was a recent article in the media about almost the entire city of New York once being vaccinated in about a month. You can look it up, I’m not going to do your work for you. We do the flu vaccine each year much faster than Covid. Israel is much faster. It can be done.

  38. Gravatar of Michael Sandifer Michael Sandifer
    5. March 2021 at 10:31

    Perhaps I’m deranged, but I’m thinking it might be a good time to start buying up the old politically incorrect copies of this book.

  39. Gravatar of Todd Kreider Todd Kreider
    5. March 2021 at 15:33

    Scott: ” entire cities like NYC were vaccinated in a short period of time.”

    It was 80% of NYC vaccinated in a month. The cases aren’t remotely the same, though. In 1947, the fear was a fear of a far more contagious and far more deadly outbreak of smallpox. NYC easily vaccinated the elderly within a month and there is not remotely an emergency where those under 60 and especially under 50 need quick access (or in many cases any access) to the vaccine.

  40. Gravatar of Todd Kreider Todd Kreider
    5. March 2021 at 15:52

    And in 1947 it was just a matter of getting stocked smallpox vaccines to one city. It wasn’t as if 200 cities urgently needed them.

  41. Gravatar of Martin Mertens Martin Mertens
    5. March 2021 at 17:42

    It’s an interesting reversal. The Left is usually all about culture, but with this stuff they sound like naive Libertarians.

    “‘Cancel culture’? But the publisher wasn’t coerced by the government. You see, we live in a free market so…”

  42. Gravatar of msgkings msgkings
    5. March 2021 at 17:57

    @Michael S:

    Kind of a “Han shot first” rarity that will soon be impossible to find

  43. Gravatar of Dtoh Dtoh
    5. March 2021 at 22:31

    Scott,

    1. What do you expect when you support politicians like Biden?

    2. When in recent memory has the U.S. government done anything effectively or for that matter done anything worthwhile?

  44. Gravatar of postkey postkey
    6. March 2021 at 03:31

    Look, look over here: “. . . what motivates lefties is a desire to destroy or at least drastically change their own country and culture, . . . ”

    Don’t look over there at the plutocrats and the M.I.C., there is nothing to see?

  45. Gravatar of Lizard Man Lizard Man
    6. March 2021 at 05:59

    @DTOH
    The US government provided funding for research into the RNA technology being used in the vaccines. Granted, that is the US government giving other people money to do things, not using its own personnel and management to do something.

  46. Gravatar of Michael Sandifer Michael Sandifer
    6. March 2021 at 06:21

    Yes, it’s the overly punitive nature of cancel culture in some cases that is a problem, along with the thing that troubles me most, which seems to be the lack of opportunities for redemption. Often, apologies aren’t enough, so we throw people away, setting the stakes for some of these cancel fights too high. Some would apparently rather destroy a company or person, rather than correct a problem.

    It’s pretty easy in cases like that of Michael Vick, who had his lucrative career interrupted while in prison for abusing dogs, and as far as I’m concerned, has “paid his debt to society”. But, what does one do with someone who created an uncomfortable working environment for female colleagues, for example, but did not come close to sexual assault, or say, soliciting contingent sexual favors? Some of these people have much to offer in terms of a public presence, yet I admit that when I find out a public figure has engaged in such behavior, I find it hard to ever want to pay attention to the person again.

    Mostly though, I hear complaints about cancel culture being too sensitive, or even capricious, which I acknowledge as a problem, but it seems way overblown to me. Of course there are nuts on the left that seem to want to feed an outrage machine, but there are also those helping to advance us morally in important ways.

    I see cultural progressivism as mostly positive,even though there are some bad ideas, bad tactics and strategies, and bad people in the movement.

    I don’t ever recall being disturbed by “woke” culture or agendas in a Star Wars movie, for example, though I think most of those movies since the 80s are terrible quality-wise. My honest impression is that those disturbed by such examples of woke culture are bigots.

    On balance, I see most complaints about cancel culture as nothing more than bitching by people who don’t want to be held accountable for their actions. They whine endlessly about how things have changed about what is considered acceptable to say, forgetting how relaxed we’ve become in other ways. They act as if cancel culture is new, when on reality it’s only the values that have changed.

    People used to get cancelled for being gay, black, or Jewish. Or cancelled for being divorced, or for being adulterers. They used to get cancelled for cursing in public, or discriminated against for not being Christian. Or how about the red scare? Being thought to be communist ruined many careers.

    I don’t remember Scott having an illegitimate complaint about cancel culture, but I do think there’s sometimes a lack of emphasis on the need for more serious, professional behavior in public, at least from those who represent serious, public institutions. Jokes about worms being overrated and how they “fuck” aren’t appropriate from an editor of a journal that publishes papers featurong said worm, for example. This is nothing new. It would have been even less acceptable decades ago. Just using the word “fuck” publicly would not have been acceptable. I think we sometimes forgot from whence we came.

  47. Gravatar of Michael Sandifer Michael Sandifer
    6. March 2021 at 06:27

    msgkings,

    Yes, exactly. I don’t give a damn about this book, or the controversy surrounding it. Yes, it’s offensive and should be changed, but I see no reason to attack the author or publisher.

    I do see arbitrage opportunities, however.

  48. Gravatar of ssumner ssumner
    6. March 2021 at 10:26

    Todd, So you think vaccination is going well in America? LOL.

    dtoh, You said:

    “When in recent memory has the U.S. government done anything effectively or for that matter done anything worthwhile?”

    Would you agree that Biden repealing Trump’s shameful Muslim travel ban was worthwhile?

    You said:

    “What do you expect when you support politicians like Biden?”

    Wait, did Biden ban Dr. Seuss? And “support” is an odd term to use for my claim that Biden was less bad than the worst president in history. If you want to call that judgment “support”, even though I didn’t vote for Biden, that’s your choice.

    Michael, You are right that at times I have been insensitive to the feelings of worms.

    You said:

    “Or how about the red scare? Being thought to be communist ruined many careers.”

    Agreed, but in some ways this is even worse. Many of the people accused of being communists were in fact communists. I don’t think any serious person believes that people like David Shor and Donald McNeil are racists.

    Everyone, From now on I will view all comments using the “whataboutism” argument as a tacit admission that I’m correct. If that’s all they got, then what else am I to conclude?

  49. Gravatar of Dale Doback Dale Doback
    6. March 2021 at 12:02

    I tried looking up recent examples of people and things that have been cancelled to better understand what it means. Seems like a lot of the examples were people being fired for obviously inappropriate behavior, but other examples, like Dave Chappelle, haven’t really been cancelled in any meaningful way. I don’t know exactly why David Shor was fired, but neither do all the people on twitter who complain about his firing. I also don’t know why Donald Mcneil was fired, but I can say I probably wouldn’t hire him. I shouldn’t have to read a 3-part essay of your life story to explain why you said an offensive word. If he would have gone with his employer’s advice and given a simple and straightforward apology, he would probably still have a job and I would never have heard of him.

  50. Gravatar of Michael Sandifer Michael Sandifer
    6. March 2021 at 13:21

    No tacit admission here. You are correct in this case. I don’t care much about old books being cancelled though, as I’m not even sure what that means in the age of Amazon and all the physical or digital books anyone ever wants to buy, new and used. Does it really matter anymore if Huckleberry Finn or Tom Sawyer are taken off library shelves? Does anyone go to libraries anymore?

    I don’t favor punishing authors and publishers for politically incorrect expression that wasn’t politically incorrect at the time and is now merely insensitive.

    This is inevitable. Much seen as politically correct today will not be seen as such in a generation or two.

  51. Gravatar of dtoh dtoh
    6. March 2021 at 14:18

    Scott,
    ROFL! The best example of good government you come up with is like saying “I stopped beating my wife?”

  52. Gravatar of bb bb
    7. March 2021 at 07:49

    Scott,
    “I never even mentioned the FHA. Can you stick to the topic, without criticizing things I never said? Is that so hard to do? If you are a NIMBY then just say so. If not, then don’t criticize my objection to NIMBYism.”
    The topic isn’t super clear to me, but you seem to be connecting Dr. Seuss Enterprises deciding to take a few of his books out of print with our inability to do housing reform in east coast cities, and build airports, interstates, and subways. You seem to be connect PC culture to housing reform. The term NIMBY originated in the 70s, which is probably around the time that we lost our ability to build houses for working class people in coastal cities. I’m merely pointing out that it was also roughly the same time builders lost the ability to overtly discriminate against minorities. Would we have been able to do all that building the 50s and 60s if overt housing discrimination was illegal, or would we have invented NIMBY 20 years early. I don’t think I’m off topic, and I’m definitely not pro NIMBY, and Ilive in a coastal city.

    “And the federal government has greatly slowed the response to Covid, so I certainly would not be citing them as some sort of hero.”
    You complain that NIH delayed the rollout of vaccines by weeks, when NIH sped up our ability to develop vaccines by years. NIH is a hero.
    Also, I’m not convinced your criticisms of the FDA are correct. You are not a public health expert and neither is Tyler Cowan. Look at the disaster in Europe with their handling or the Astra Zeneca virus. They have a perfectly good vaccine that people don’t want because they botched the messaging. In the long run, overcoming vaccine skepticism will probably be more important than having a super fast rollout.
    Historically, the FDA has oscillated between approving drugs too quickly and too slowly, usually in response to instances in which harm was caused by leaning in the other direction. They do the same with responding to food poisoning outbreaks. I do not view the FDA as an exceptional organization. I think they probably have lot of fat and I don’t doubt that they are overly bureaucratic. However, I think we were smart to stick with proven processes. I think hastily abandoning those processes for expediency would have been a mistake. I am not super confident in this position, but I think you are way too confident in yours.
    Side note, the CDC did a terrible job on Covid. Their track record on past outbreaks is pretty good, so I’m inclined to think the Trump administration is largely to blame, but I could be wrong.

  53. Gravatar of ssumner ssumner
    7. March 2021 at 09:10

    Dale, If you don’t understand what happened in the Shor and McNeil cases, that’s fine. But then don’t comment here. If you do understand and think that there’s some possibility their firing was justified, then we obviously have radically different value systems. Both firings were ridiculous. Similar cases happen almost every day.

    dtoh, Not the best, the first that came to mind. And I didn’t say I stopped beating my wife, I said I stopped the man you supported from beating my wife.

    bb, You said:

    “I’m merely pointing out that it was also roughly the same time”

    LOL, it’s also roughly the same time that disco became popular. I’m speechless.

    You said:

    “Side note, the CDC did a terrible job on Covid. Their track record on past outbreaks is pretty good, so I’m inclined to think the Trump administration is largely to blame, but I could be wrong.”

    You say this right after citing Europe? Logic doesn’t seem like your strong suit. Look, both the US and Europe screwed up, that’s obvious. I don’t accept you claim that the US government caused the vaccine to be developed, that’s pure speculation. In a laissez-faire world I suspect we would have gotten vaccines far faster.

  54. Gravatar of bb bb
    7. March 2021 at 10:24

    Scott,
    “You say this right after citing Europe? Logic doesn’t seem like your strong suit. Look, both the US and Europe screwed up, that’s obvious. I don’t accept you claim that the US government caused the vaccine to be developed, that’s pure speculation. In a laissez-faire world I suspect we would have gotten vaccines far faster.”

    In the actual world that we live, the actual NIH, developed the actual mRNA technology that was used to create the actual vaccines that everyone is clamoring for. You claim that in a laissez-faire world we would have gotten the vaccine much faster, but I’m the one engaging in “pure speculation”. And I’m not good in logic.
    Vaccine skepticism will likely be our biggest challenge in a month or two. I think your preferred policy would have increased skepticism. I don’t see how you are so confident in your positions on a topic for which you are not expert. But logic isn’t my strong suit.

  55. Gravatar of dtoh dtoh
    7. March 2021 at 19:17

    Scott

    “I said I stopped the man you supported from beating my wife.”

    So does that mean we should expect 4 years of whatabout Trump from you?

    🙂

  56. Gravatar of ssumner ssumner
    8. March 2021 at 10:24

    bb, This reminds me of the claim that “the government created the internet”. Is that also your view?

    dtoh, The day after the election, I said that this was actually bad news. We’d get 12 years of Trump instead of 8 years of Trump. So the beatings will continue until the morals of voters improve. 🙂

  57. Gravatar of bb bb
    8. March 2021 at 16:12

    Scott,
    No that’s not my view. But NIH did develop the underlining technology that made these vaccines possible. To suggest that the mRNA technology would have been developed without NIH seems very unlikely to me, and definitely speculation.

  58. Gravatar of ssumner ssumner
    9. March 2021 at 10:59

    bb, I can’t rule that out, but the overall role of the government has been negative. I define government broadly, to include our regulatory/tort/anti-price gouging system, which discourages risk taking that is otherwise hugely beneficial from a utilitarian perspective.

    Suppose that last March a billionaire had said “I’ll pay 30,000 volunteers to do a challenge study of a vaccine”. Could he? I doubt it.

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