It’s the same everywhere

This Matt Yglesias tweet understates the similarities:

In Turkey, the liberals win both the prosperous coastal cities and the oppressed minority groups (the Kurds in the southeast.)

The authoritarian nationalist right wins the rest. That’s politics in the 21st century. Long gone are the days when non-minority working class voters supported the left.

(Within a few more election cycles, the Democrats are going to lose the Hispanic working class.)



12 Responses to “It’s the same everywhere”

  1. Gravatar of Nate Nate
    2. June 2023 at 05:06

    Down here in Florida, something that had been reported on after the last mid term and general elections was the trending of Hispanic voters voting Red (I believe that was significantly Cuban-Americans in Miami-Dade) and I feel the Left has no reaction to it.

  2. Gravatar of Lizard Man Lizard Man
    2. June 2023 at 06:18

    I am pretty sure that income and vote share for the left is negatively correlated among all groups. And in the US, I thought that young women, and especially young single women have been moving left very rapidly. This is probably consistent with an urban vs rural exurban divide, but we still see Democratic governors in places like Kentucky or Montana, and Republican governors in places like Maryland and Massachusetts. The two parties in the US are capable of winning voters from the other side and hence elections when they really want to.

  3. Gravatar of ssumner ssumner
    2. June 2023 at 08:09

    Nate, The Democratic Party seems determined to commit suicide.
    Sort of like the Republican Party. It will be quite a battle seeing which party can self destruct most effectively.

    Lizard, You said:

    “I am pretty sure that income and vote share for the left is negatively correlated among all groups”

    Not in countries like Turkey. Or Hungary. Or Poland.

  4. Gravatar of msgkings msgkings
    2. June 2023 at 10:43

    @ssumner: the partisan duopoly in the US is unkillable, even by suicide. What’s happening is a reshuffling. Uneducated working class types are moving to the Reps and the educated are moving to the Dems.

    Before this shift, many working class voted Dem especially union members. And many wealthy educated voters that used to vote Rep are moving the other way.

    The breakdown used to be Dems were for the poor, Reps for the rich. That’s changing but neither party is actually losing out to other alternatives. I wish that were so.

  5. Gravatar of Sara Sara
    2. June 2023 at 21:15

    Farmers are not authoritarian nationalists, and they are extremely productive. They don’t drink vanilla latte’s at a desk all day, take bathroom breaks every 20 minutes, demand safe spaces and couches, and depend on someone else to provide their salary. They toil the land, travail into the dusk, and do it with a smile, with love for country, for family, for the spirit of the rugged west, and for those who have come before and have yet to arrive.

    They want to preserve goodness and truth, moderate governance, decentralized power, fiscal responsibility, and they don’t like degenerate thugs ruining what they’ve worked hard to build.

    They also don’t like rich coastal elites centralizing power, and treating them as serfs.

    And I’ve already told you that there is a middle ground between open borders and your incessant use of the word “nationalism.” Some people do value liberty and self determination, which means the right to choose who gets to participate in their community. Most people prefer this model, as they want to live around those with similar values.

    You also misunderstand the left and the right.

    On the hard right, there is anarcho-capitalism, which is hardly authoritarian, although anarchy is not a fun world in my view.

    On the hard left, you have the centralization of power into the hands of a few, and a collective community responsibility. It’s the world of Plato’s philosopher kings, and Stalin and Mao’s thugs which is authoritarian. You also have the anarcho syndicalist faction, which is smart enough to understand the dangers of the state, but which seeks to totally destroy the individual in favor of the community. I.e, rocker, chomsky.

    Farmers in Turkey and the U.S. are not authoritarian. When you finally realize that, you will have come from the hard left to the moderate center.

  6. Gravatar of Ricardo Ricardo
    3. June 2023 at 00:50

    Folks, when Sumner screams his anti-trump hatred, and tells us everyone on the right is an authoritarian nationalist, just remind him that he voted for one of the most corrupt establishment politicians in American history.

    This is the full report of Hunter Biden’s laptop and the Biden family businesses; there is also another site: that shows all of his deranged pictures, including his orgy with Daphne Guinness. That site is heavily trafficked, however, because it was posted on zerohedge this morning and so half the world is trying to view it.

    The map is very simple to understand; when you give one party a lot of power, the party becomes corrupt. Like the democart party today, the old republican party owned all of the money in all of the major cities, and it took another populist: namely, Theodore Roosevelt, to bring the old barons and corrupt inner city political machines down to their knees. Roosevelt was a rich man who cared about the people.

    Today, Wall Street is on the left, tech is on the left, and academy is on the left. they have all the power, all the money, and they are scared of the populists who are fighting for the blue collar working class. Robert F Kennedy jr and Donald Trump are freaking them out, because they are the two politicians (and possibly DeSantis) who have the courage to block their attempt to consolidate industry with a one party state.

    This is why they are attacking free speech, why they are going after both Kennedy Jr and Trump maliciously, and why they are trying to divide and conquer with spurious claims over race, sex, party affiliation, etc. All of these attacks really boil down to anti-capitalism. To obtain the power they want to have, they must first convince people that capitalism is bad, that it’s racist, that it’s colonial, that it’s not equitable, that’s it’s not “green”. That growth is “limited” and should be “managed”.

    These are what the supranationals print on a daily basis. View the WEF monthly reports, and the reports from Tavistock, and you will see this language being employed.

    Sumner is not part of that group, because he doesn’t have the money. He’s not rich like Sara. But he does support that type of globalized hegemony and forced coercion. That’s why he wants a one world NATO. It’s why he continues to wrongly state that libertarians have been hijacked by the far right, and it is why he calls himself elite. He doesn’t want the blue collar to take back the country from the globalists.

    Watch out for those who want to centralize power. They are dangerous.

  7. Gravatar of Edward Edward
    3. June 2023 at 05:19

    Your identity politics, in which you place everyone into a group, and label them oppressed or not oppressed doesn’t make any sense.

    The greatest minority is the individual, and therefore nobody is more “oppressed” in modern times than the individual.

    Why don’t you show the same concern for Christians as you do for the Kurds? Why not show the same concern for the “oppressed” Donbas people, as you do for the Kurds?

    Why don’t you show the same concern for Serbians living in Bosnia as you do for the Kurds?

    I will tell you why. Because you are not logically consistent. You only care about groups that you support; other groups, for all you care, can be beaten to death in the street, just like the 70 year old Christian man who was beaten beyond recognition by a radical authoritarian leftist just a few days ago. His crime? Praying. The simple act of praying triggered the social justice warrior into an uncontrollable rage.

  8. Gravatar of ssumner ssumner
    3. June 2023 at 08:19

    Sara, If you are claiming that Erdogan is no more authoritarian than Putin, I’d have to agree.

  9. Gravatar of Nicholas Decker Nicholas Decker
    3. June 2023 at 13:30

    I’m not convinced that Sara, Edward, and Ricardo are actually separate people. Three indefatigable haters, all with a similar style?

  10. Gravatar of Tom Tom
    3. June 2023 at 18:37

    Sara, how are farmers treated like serfs? Isn’t agriculture subsidized? I expect that the infrastructure the government provides to lower density areas costs more per capita.

  11. Gravatar of ssumner ssumner
    4. June 2023 at 07:51

    Nicholas, I suspect they are Russia trolls, perhaps financed by Putin. What sane person would defend Putin?

  12. Gravatar of Michael S. Michael S.
    15. June 2023 at 20:56

    I love how the writer of the article says “most productive areas” as if farmers and factory workers in middle America are not productive.

    These postmodernist leftists have completely lost their minds.

    First, they call farmers racist. Then, they call them “unproductive” as if there was any farmer in any country, at any time in history, who had an unproductive day. I mean working the fields is hardly unproductive.

    The left is showing it’s ugly face in more ways than one.

    Did you hear that Biden is now refusing to be on the ballot box in Iowa and New Hampshire if South Carolina isn’t the first to vote in the primary?

    LOL. I mean you cannot make this stuff up.

    I mean this is a guy who accused Trump of treason over “thought crimes”, yet the congress now appears to have documents that Biden took a 5M bribe from Ukraine. I mean, even moderate republicans are going after Biden after seeing the latest FBI release, which btw, the committee had to beg for. The FBI is dragging their feet, which shows that there serious corruption in that agency.

    We are now living in Cuba. The left has completely taken over. They are harassing political candidate both privately and publicly until they find something. It can be as remote as waiving a document around, boasting in typical Donald bombastic fashion, and then of course when you find something, whatever it is, you declare that person a traitor to their country.

    If the transcript from the audio is true, then it appears he violated the law, but it’s hard to take the left seriously when they, and the anti-trumpers, like Romney and Sumner went after him for eight years. It’s like the boy who cried wolf. You brought phony charges in NY, phony impeachment over a phone call, and so now when you have something trivial, like boasting about having confidential documents, nobody cares. That’s why his polls number went up. Every one sees that this man has been harassed by never Trumpers like Scott for nearly eight years, and his lawyers are harassed by the 65 project daily. It’s so obvious that he’s a “target” as Dershowitz says that we are just going to vote for him anyway. The left has overstepped, and it doesn’t matter anymore. The only thing that matters is defeating the establishment career politicians.

    We do live in a third world country, though, so perhaps we shouldn’t be surprised that one party is arresting candidates and refusing to debate their political opponents like RFK.

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