Trump/Pence

[Most readers will want to skip this post]

Don’t you hate those clever inside the Beltway reporters, like Ezra Klein?  Always showing their superiority by mocking the views of GOP candidates.  Look how he characterizes a recent Trump interview on 60 Minutes:

Let’s recap: Donald Trump says he opposed the war in Iraq from the beginning, which he didn’t. He says one reason you can’t trust Hillary Clinton’s judgment is that she supported the war in Iraq. But his vice presidential pick also supported the war in Iraq, and his justification for that is, literally, “I don’t care.” When asked to explain the discrepancy, his answer, literally, is that Mike Pence is allowed to make mistakes and Hillary Clinton isn’t.

Now let’s start with the obvious, Trump certainly didn’t say what Klein claims he says.  He didn’t say that Pence is allowed to make mistakes and Clinton isn’t. He’s not going to spout utter nonsense on national TV.  He may give misleading answers, or incomplete answers, or incorrect answers. But he’s not going to provide completely idiotic remarks of the sort that Klein attributes to him. Nobody talks that way once they graduate from 8th grade.  Klein must be twisting his words. So let’s go to the tape and see what Trump actually said:

Lesley Stahl: But you’ve harped on this.

Donald Trump: But I was against the war in Iraq from the beginning.

Lesley Stahl: Yeah, but you’ve used that vote of Hillary [Clinton]’s that was the same as Gov. Pence as the example of her bad judgment.

Donald Trump: Many people have, and frankly, I’m one of the few that was right on Iraq.

Lesley Stahl: Yeah, but what about he—

Donald Trump: He’s entitled to make a mistake every once in a while.

Lesley Stahl: But she’s not? Okay, come on—

Donald Trump: But she’s not—

Lesley Stahl: She’s not?

Donald Trump: No. She’s not.

Lesley Stahl: Got it.

Aha!  Trump did not say that “Hillary Clinton isn’t” allowed to make mistakes, he said “No, she’s not” allowed to make mistakes.  And Trump did not say “Mike Pence is allowed to make mistakes”, he said “He’s entitled to make a mistake”.

Trump also gives a thoughtful and incisive explanation of his plan to eliminate terrorism, which Klein mocks unfairly:

So here is Donald Trump’s plan to destroy ISIS: He will declare a war. He will promise, from the outset, not to include substantial numbers of American troops in that war. He is going to make NATO fight the war by threatening to withdraw American support from NATO. And he believes Turkey, which was roiled by an attempted coup as recently as Friday night, can wipe out ISIS if we just give the country the right incentives. (Presumably, the fact that ISIS has killed dozens in Turkey through a series of terrorist attacks isn’t sufficiently motivating.)

Read the original to see just how unfair Klein is.  And if that’s not bad enough, he then starts to go after Pence:

At about this point in the interview, you could see Pence get concerned. What happened next deserves to be quoted in full:

Lesley Stahl: But declare war—

Donald Trump: —get neighboring states and I’m going to get — we are going to get NATO; we’re going to wipe ’em out. We’re gonna—

Lesley Stahl: But declare war?

Mike Pence: Lesley—

Lesley Stahl: What does that mean—

Mike Pence: This is — this is the kind — this is the kind of leadership that America needs, and it—

Lesley Stahl: But what—

Mike Pence: —and it begins with deciding to destroy the enemies of our freedom.

Lesley Stahl: How?

Mike Pence: And how we do that? I have every confidence. You — you remember I served on the Foreign Affairs Committee. And I’m very confident that when Donald Trump becomes president of the United States, he’ll give a directive to our military commanders, bring together other nations, and we will use the enormous resources of the United States to destroy that enemy.

Now I think I understand what Trump saw in Pence.  Trump is an old man (70 years old to be precise), and we need someone capable of filling Trump’s (smallish) shoes if he should, God forbid, die.

Or be impeached.


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31 Responses to “Trump/Pence”

  1. Gravatar of E. Harding E. Harding
    19. July 2016 at 08:30

    “Don’t you hate those clever inside the Beltway reporters, like Ezra Klein?”

    -They’re not even clever.

    “Always showing their superiority by mocking the views of GOP candidates.”

    -Bingo. He’d do the same to Cruz if he was the nominee. Or Bush or Kasich. He never mocks Her, despite the fact she’s so mockable. These absolute lying scum in the press ought to be locked up.

    “And he believes Turkey, which was roiled by an attempted coup as recently as Friday night, can wipe out ISIS if we just give the country the right incentives.”

    -It can; and it can do so in hours.

    “(Presumably, the fact that ISIS has killed dozens in Turkey through a series of terrorist attacks isn’t sufficiently motivating.)”

    -Those were probably by Turkish intelligence. The Turks are behind ISIS. I have long suggested nuking the major cities of that country, settling Americans there, and making Turkey the 51st state for its support of ISIS. Maybe do the same to the District of Columbia as well (except making it a state, of course).

    BTW, your predictions on the GOP and Russia aren’t becoming true, but are moving somewhat closer to truth:

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/global-opinions/trump-campaign-guts-gops-anti-russia-stance-on-ukraine/2016/07/18/98adb3b0-4cf3-11e6-a7d8-13d06b37f256_story.html?postshare=9961468859608386&tid=ss_tw

  2. Gravatar of Art Deco Art Deco
    19. July 2016 at 08:53

    Don’t you hate those clever inside the Beltway reporters, like Ezra Klein?

    Ezra Klein is an opinion journalist. That’s what he’s done his entire adult life. He has no history in the military, no vocational / professional schooling, no history in business, no history in the foreign service or the intelligence agencies, no history in the civil service, no history as a teacher, no history in the trades. He’s never lived in a small town or rural area and only briefly in a small city. Pretty much his whole life has been spent in Los Angeles or Washington. He has no children, either. He knows how to turn in copy on time and (what’s a skill) how to persuade patrons to fund his Vox venture. These are skills, but he’s not in a position to instruct others about much of anything.

    Oh, and he was the progentior of Journ-O-List, i.e. he’s a poster child for the degenerate condition of the media.

  3. Gravatar of Tom Brown Tom Brown
    19. July 2016 at 09:38

    Scott, when you write “[Most readers will want to skip this post]” that’s my cue to definitely read it, and I’m glad I did. I enjoy your brand of… ah… whatever this is.

    I see the Chumpling twins have jumped on this right away, as expected.

  4. Gravatar of Random online drunk Random online drunk
    19. July 2016 at 10:05

    These are the sort of pedantic distinctions I see Trump supporters point out to talk him out of anything. I’m sorry, I’m simply not seeing at all how Pence and Hillary are noticeably different. She’s running for president and he’s not? Are VPs allowed to make more mistakes? The question was specifically about entitlement to mistakes (no quibbles over word usage like “allowed”, or “entitled”, they were being criticized under the exact same word), and if you include “once and a while” for Pence, they’re both plural. Mistakes, not mistake. As in both are entitled to make mistakes. Well, except one isn’t.

    As much as I can’t stand Ezra’s predictable stances against anyone who doesn’t sign onto his ideology, I don’t see/understand how your point would be significant. I think the worse accusation would have been over his supposed discounted bond buyback plan. Granted, he’s an idiot and doesn’t understand the terms, but anyone actually reading into it could see what he was trying to get across. Refinancing, or possibly in the worst case scenario buying back at a discount. For all those who disagreed (you included) many ended up agreeing to his general point. Worst come to worst we can do that, he stated it as a possibility and I think that’s something everyone can agree on. Will it have terrible consequences? Yep. But it could be argued if those are better than the alternatives.

    I have to say that Ezra probably put more work into reading Trump’s claims than you did, and probably more room to argue it. (In fact, all the room)

    Is this not a serious post? I almost feel you made the points to see how Trump supporters would say anything to support him. In fact, if I remember correctly you made that point first.

  5. Gravatar of Dilip Dilip
    19. July 2016 at 10:23

    @Tom Brown: LOL! You made my day. I wanted to have a bet with a co-worker as to who would be the first two commenters since we both follow Scott’s blog. Unfortunately we couldn’t place bets as we agreed who it would be 🙂

  6. Gravatar of J G J G
    19. July 2016 at 10:23

    You hit that sweet spot where I’m like 80% sure your first paragraph is sarcasm, but I’m not positive.

  7. Gravatar of Art Deco Art Deco
    19. July 2016 at 11:21

    I see the Chumpling twins have jumped on this right away, as expected.

    And you’re playing the snotty bore, as you do every time you type a sentence.

  8. Gravatar of Gary Anderson Gary Anderson
    19. July 2016 at 11:25

    Klein paraphrased this: Aha! Trump did not say that “Hillary Clinton isn’t” allowed to make mistakes, he said “No, she’s not” allowed to make mistakes. And Trump did not say “Mike Pence is allowed to make mistakes”, he said “He’s entitled to make a mistake”.

    You against paraphrasing, Scott? Lol. And what about bond demand being massive, Lion? Just throw me a bone of understanding about this massive demand, and how it affects the economy going forward. Slow growth if you ask me, forever or til the end of time, whichever comes first.

  9. Gravatar of Ray Lopez Ray Lopez
    19. July 2016 at 11:58

    Scott Sumner, please take a stand on whether you think Trump will be elected. He has at present, say some polls, about as much chance of winning as BrExit did (about 33%). Are you concerned he might win? Go on record then as saying so. Otherwise we’re wasting our time. I think he has a much smaller chance than 33%.

  10. Gravatar of Tom Brown Tom Brown
    19. July 2016 at 12:33

    @Dilip, funny, thanks!

  11. Gravatar of Gary Anderson Gary Anderson
    19. July 2016 at 15:05

    Ray, I don’t think most of us want Trump to win. Could he win? Sure. The American people have been oppressed by slow growth. But, he wouldn’t be able to change that even if he were elected. The Fed is in charge. And it may be over Scott’s head, but it looks like massive demand for bonds does affect the behavior of the Fed, the lack of attention it gives to the economy, the stability of the banks, etc.

    The Central Banks have won by creating massive bond demand, and there is nothing left for them to do (I still hold out the hope for helicopter money): http://www.talkmarkets.com/content/global-markets/central-bank-victory-and-negative-bond-rates?post=100707&uid=4798

  12. Gravatar of Steve Steve
    19. July 2016 at 17:56

    [most commenters will want to skip these videos]

    I am the Great Cornholio! I need TP for my bunghole!
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxaYoBvNpcQ

    Beavis does Mexican outreach for TP!
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1rLNBl9y2k

  13. Gravatar of Gary Anderson Gary Anderson
    19. July 2016 at 18:03

    Lol, Steve. I wonder if Beavis knows there is strong bond demand and little interest by the Fed in pursuing inflationary policy, since they have no tools to stop it or else the financial system will collapse from high rates.

  14. Gravatar of ssumner ssumner
    20. July 2016 at 04:45

    Harding, You said:

    “Those were probably by Turkish intelligence.”

    Why am I also not surprised that you are also a conspiracy nut. I’m afraid to ask you who’s behind 9/11. And who was on that grassy knoll?

    Random drunk online, You said:

    “Refinancing, or possibly in the worst case scenario buying back at a discount. For all those who disagreed (you included) many ended up agreeing to his general point. Worst come to worst we can do that, he stated it as a possibility and I think that’s something everyone can agree on.”

    I have to say that your chosen name is highly appropriate. Seeing people defend Trump’s idiocy reminds me of the Jim Jones cult. No, defaulting on the debt is not a reasonable position. It’s unthinkable, and idiotic for a presidential candidate to talk about it as an option.

    It’s interesting that the bond market did not react—that tells me they don’t take Trump seriously.

    JG, I’m also 80% sure that I intended sarcasm.

    Ray, Whatever the market says, that’s my view.

  15. Gravatar of Christian List Christian List
    20. July 2016 at 07:44


    Trump is an old man (70 years old to be precise)

    Hillary isn’t really younger, only 15 months or something like that. Hillary is nearly 69, Trump is 70 and Sanders is 74. It’s the race of Generation Grandma and Grandpa. May the fastest mobility scooter win the race.

  16. Gravatar of collin collin
    20. July 2016 at 10:49

    OK….but I rather read Kevin Drum or Ed Kilgore on these issues. However,

    WHY IN THE NAME OF GOD DOES ANYBODY ASSUME TRUMP WAS AGAINST THE IRAQ WAR? Buzzfeed has all kinds of evidence he supported the invasion 2003 and 2004.

    And as Kevin Drum points out Obama did ask for Congress to officially allocate him money in 2014 and has tried desperately to get Allies in the Middle East to support our efforts. (In reality they turn around and bomb another Mid East group they don’t like.) So unless Trump is stating of sending ~100K, he has not said anything more substantial than Obama.

  17. Gravatar of E. Harding E. Harding
    20. July 2016 at 12:43

    “I’m afraid to ask you who’s behind 9/11.”

    -I haven’t investigated.

    “And who was on that grassy knoll?”

    -Kennedy was shot entirely from behind; a grassy knoll location for any shooter makes no sense. Prima facie, the Kennedy assassination is open-and-shut: gun, palmprint, single bullet, really weird assassin. But nothing regarding the Kennedy assassination is ever open-and-shut.

    “Buzzfeed has all kinds of evidence he supported the invasion 2003 and 2004.”

    -Only 2003. He changed his mind rapidly in the days following the start of the fighting.

    “And as Kevin Drum points out Obama did ask for Congress to officially allocate him money in 2014 and has tried desperately to get Allies in the Middle East to support our efforts.”

    -LOL. Do you really believe that? The Obama administration re-created ISIS in April 2013 and used it for three main purposes:

    1. Regime change in Iraq

    2. Hurting Iran via Iraq, Hezbollah, and the Syrian government

    3. Kurdish expansion

    All three goals have been or are being accomplished.

    “It’s unthinkable, and idiotic for a presidential candidate to talk about it as an option.”

    -FDR defaulted on the debt, and it didn’t hurt the U.S. much at all.

  18. Gravatar of E. Harding E. Harding
    20. July 2016 at 12:52

    https://twitter.com/Steve_Sailer/status/755630623847481344

    Make America Great Again!

  19. Gravatar of Justin Justin
    20. July 2016 at 13:07

    Wow, that’s a great comment Art Deco. So true, Klein and the others at Vox are not serious people.

  20. Gravatar of Justin Justin
    20. July 2016 at 13:09

    Trump’s pick of Pence was inexplicable. Why go with a cuckservative after they’ve been shown toothless? Presumably there’s some good reason, information we don’t have. Maybe Pence is weak and can be easily controlled, but it seems to be like Trump is setting himself up for an assassination or impeachment with Pence. Should have gone with Kobach or Sessions.

  21. Gravatar of Tom Brown Tom Brown
    20. July 2016 at 13:41

    @Justin,

    Looks like Trump was really looking for a Cheney-like VP (but even more so):
    http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/20/politics/john-kasich-donald-trump-vice-president/

    Why would that be in the least bit surprising?

  22. Gravatar of E. Harding E. Harding
    20. July 2016 at 13:43

    “Why go with a cuckservative after they’ve been shown toothless?”

    -He’s not entirely a cuckservative, and his immigration plans are very similar to Trump’s:

    https://www.numbersusa.com/content/my/congress/952/gradescoresheet/

    Sandoval would have also been good, as he, unlike Pence, overperformed fundamentals (Pence notoriously underperformed). I thought Kasich would have been good (he vastly overperformed fundamentals in Ohio), and Trump’s people thought so, too, but Kasich is nutso.

    nytimes.com/2016/07/20/magazine/how-donald-trump-picked-his-running-mate.html

    washingtonpost.com/news/josh-rogin/wp/2016/07/19/kasich-warns-against-a-trump-takeover-of-gop-foreign-policy/

    The key to all this was picking a candidate who would bore people to sleep and to, in Trump’s words “unify the party”. Picking a Cruz supporter was a perfect way to show that there is plenty of room for intellectual debate within the Trump administration, and that it won’t be just blindly dismissive of non-Trump opinion like it usually seems. It’s much more comfortable voting for someone when you know he’s receptive to different opinions and is not crazy or a fundamentalist.

  23. Gravatar of E. Harding E. Harding
    20. July 2016 at 13:45

    “Cheney-like VP (but even more so)”

    -That’s what Trump ended up picking. Cheney and Pence were both similarly conservative in the House, but Cheney got a lot more enthusiasm from the base than Pence.

    Pence seems to lack Cheney’s ruthless streak.

  24. Gravatar of Tom Brown Tom Brown
    20. July 2016 at 13:46

    Quiz for conspiracy theorists: who’s this lady?:
    https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-1/p160x160/13726767_138562309909207_3072922715059435014_n.jpg?oh=fc1bee1d60b8241491f060206e9c35f6&oe=5831C3B1
    And why did her facebook page just pop up today? =)

  25. Gravatar of Tom Brown Tom Brown
    20. July 2016 at 13:54

    The Obama administration re-created ISIS in April 2013 and used it for three main purposes:

    Please share with us your references for this extraordinary assertion. As Carl Sagan once said “Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.”

  26. Gravatar of E. Harding E. Harding
    20. July 2016 at 13:59

    “Please share with us your references for this extraordinary assertion.”

    -It’s hardly extraordinary. What evidence do you need? All evidence indicates this.

  27. Gravatar of Tom Brown Tom Brown
    20. July 2016 at 14:19

    All evidence indicates this.

    You’re the only one I’ve ever heard of making that claim, and so far I’ve seen no evidence to back it up other than your assertion.

    I think there’s a Palestinian conspiracy theory that Israel is behind ISIS. I also know Mark Marek shares this view. From what I can tell he’s also a neo-Nazi (or at least an admirer of Hitler). Do you think the Israelis were in on it too?

    In either case, please share with us your evidence. I’m fascinated to see what you have.

  28. Gravatar of collin collin
    21. July 2016 at 08:57

    -LOL. Do you really believe that? The Obama administration re-created ISIS in April 2013 and used it for three main purposes:

    Wow that quite assertion considering the outbreak of ISIS has hurt Obama’s second term a lot in the US. (Remember the 2014 Midterms?) And if it wanted to hurt Iran so much, then why did he pursue the Iran nuclear deal? From all indications he started to plan these negotiations in 2013 and whatever the outcome it belongs to Obama. And it does appear Iraq is getting more assistance from Iran against ISIS. And additionally Obama appears to try to work with Russia to bring some kind of peace deal to Syria. (These efforts have not surprisingly been unsuccessful. At this point, the Syria Civil War will have to burn itself out.)

  29. Gravatar of msgkings msgkings
    21. July 2016 at 08:59

    @Tom Brown:

    And just like that…[poof]….he’s gone

  30. Gravatar of msgkings msgkings
    21. July 2016 at 09:01

    @Collin:

    His conspiracy theories are evidence that Harding has an IQ of around 98

  31. Gravatar of ssumner ssumner
    21. July 2016 at 09:03

    Justin, You said:

    “Trump’s pick of Pence was inexplicable.”

    Only to fools who can’t see what’s obvious to most of us, that Trump’s a con man.

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