The loudest yelps for liberty . . .

Over at Econlog, I discuss some recent comments attributed to Peter Thiel, who seems to be edging from libertarianism toward national conservatism.

Recently, I’m seeing quite a bit of that sort of transition, in all sorts of places.  Here’s an example of an essay from Law and Liberty:

Conservatives need Thiel because he has a positive vision for the federal government in industrial policy and basic scientific research, to say nothing of the ways he might revive the Cold War-era conservative seriousness regarding national security. . . .

But Thiel is weak on what to do about defending a stable way of life, which for many Americans is the main purpose of politics. . . . Indeed, his very attack on the liberal institutions that aim to form character, the media and academia, should lead him to realize America needs more social conservatism of the right kind: that which prepares Americans to live worthwhile lives in freedom. . . . 

Whether he knows it or not, Thiel’s political vision necessarily depends on American politics, and therefore on the Founding. We really do believe, most of us, in natural rights that come before government and therefore treasure certain freedoms. Consequently, we prefer not to be administered by vast institutions, political or otherwise. Even when we feel stuck being the way we are, we do not contemplate living like other nations, for we do not want to be circumscribed by the state.

Here’s another essay by a different author, from the same Law and Liberty site:

Resolved: That America Should Adopt an Industrial Policy

It’s not at all clear to me how an industrial policy promotes “liberty”.

Some people ask me why I moved to the West Coast, with its highly intrusive government policies. It is true that my state (California) is over-regulated and overtaxed. But things are not that simple. Consider Alabama, largely governed by conservative Republicans that like to talk about “liberty” and “freedom”.

In Alabama, pot is illegal. So is physician-assisted suicide for the terminally ill. So is prostitution. In much of northern Alabama, you can’t even buy alcohol:

And Alabama recently banned abortion.

Most of these things are legal on the West Coast (except prostitution, which is only legal in parts of Nevada.) I am 15 minutes from a California Tesla dealership, but in Alabama it’s illegal to sell Teslas.

Admittedly, the West Coast is much less friendly to most businesses than Alabama. But despite those intrusive regulations, many of America’s most productive people in industries like computers, software, biotech, entertainment and aerospace choose to live on the West Coast. Maybe our most creative people prefer not to live in a Christian theocracy. Maybe they’d prefer to avoid a state where a recent GOP nominee for the US Senate advocated criminalizing homosexuality and is opposed to Muslims serving in Congress, and still won most of the white vote. Maybe Alabama’s “liberty” is an empty cliché. Alabama’s economy certainly doesn’t seem to be attracting many people:

Alabama population growth stagnant amid high mortality rate

With reapportionment looming after the 2020 Census, Alabama is on the cusp of losing one of its seven seats in the U.S. House of Representatives, a development that could reduce the state’s voice in the lower chamber. It would be the first loss of a seat for the state since 1970. 

Wouldn’t that be sad.

The Trump administration is up in arms over France’s decision to impose a tax on internet services. But that’s not because the Trump people like high tech. After all, most of the profits from high tech flow to blue states like California, Massachusetts and Washington. Rather, Trump wants the US government (which means Trump) to grab more of those profits. Look for an antitrust crusade against high tech, with some heavy fines. Then the money can be distributed to people in red states hurt by Trump policies, such as farmers.

Conservatives correctly point out that progressivism has a potentially unlimited list of “unmet needs”, which is an open door to never ending growth in government. Traditionally, the opposition to this sort of big government has come from the libertarian wing of the GOP. But if the GOP is taken over by “national conservatives” who favor industrial policy, then we will be in an entirely new world. Two big government ideologies will be fighting over the “golden goose”.

Just as there is no limit to “unmet needs”, there is no limit to “enemies”. Nationalists will find an unending number of groups to fight against, including foreigners, Hollywood, universities, drug companies and high tech firms. Big government will be used as a tool to favor the economic interests of their tribe—say Alabama auto dealers who don’t want to compete against Tesla—and will also be used to enforce their vision of “social conservatism”.

I’d rather not have to choose between these two competing statist visions. But if forced to choose, I’ll opt for the tribe that doesn’t tell foreign-looking people like my wife to go back to where they came from. The one that prefers to redistribute income to the poor and public employees, not to politically favored businesses.

PS. I hope it goes without saying that the title of the post is not an attempt to accuse conservatives of supporting slavery, it’s an accusation of hypocrisy.

PPS. Slightly off topic: North America has nearly 500 million people, and more than half live in places where pot is legal. Please don’t talk about legal pot in Colorado; it’s no longer special. Pot is legal in Peoria, Illinois, in Grand Rapids, Michigan and in Bakersfield, California. BTW, kudos to Trump for his 5 recent pardons. Let’s have some more pardons for people with pot violations that have already served absurdly long sentences.


Tags:

 
 
 

38 Responses to “The loudest yelps for liberty . . .”

  1. Gravatar of Lorenzo from Oz Lorenzo from Oz
    30. July 2019 at 16:06

    I have commented over at Econlog. It is perfectly fair to critique dubious economics, but not if becomes an excuse to ignore the underlying problems that this nationalist turn seems to be groping towards responding to, however unfortunately.

    A race to see which side of politics can more completely betray the American Revolution is definitely an unlovely sight. But if “free market” economics becomes labelled as the “leaving the provinces to rot” approach, it is going to have limited appeal. Especially as progressives seemed to be increasingly addicted to the provocative equivocation of socialism (to use Bryan Caplan’s nice phrase). Remembering that actually existing socialism has so much worse a record than actually existing nationalism. (Though combining the two is infamously toxic.)

    Of course, nationalist turns are quite a thing nowadays, President Xi is going quite strong on it.

    Here’s a though to conjure with: whose vision does contemporary China more closely adhere to? Mao Zedong’s or Chiang Kai-shek’s?

  2. Gravatar of Lorenzo from Oz Lorenzo from Oz
    30. July 2019 at 16:17

    Playing the nationalist card is also a standard way that commercial elites make a play for working class votes.

  3. Gravatar of PRC PRC
    30. July 2019 at 16:54

    Demographic Change is hard, so I tend to stay away from those topics. I don’t blame Republicans for being skeptical, but I am very glad that people like your wife made it into this country 🙂
    That being said, I don’t agree at all with your characterizations with Alabama and “Christian Theocracy” at all. If being overtly religious had impacted innovation, modern science and history would have started in East Asia, not Europe. Western Europe and America is pretty much responsible for 95%+ of all modern innovations.
    California’s success is almost certainly due to three factors in my mind:
    1. The Climate in California has made the land the most valuable living spaces in the country, the best and brightest will want to use their higher salaries living in California’s beautiful climate
    2. The banning of noncompetes formented an open culture of labor, which led to a huge diffusion of ideas. This combined with federal research led to the modern tech boom
    3. Probably the most important, California’s demographics are good.
    The state is probably 94%+ White, Asian, and Hispanic. All those groups have low crime rates, and vast income mobility. Virtually no ethnic tension between the three groups. California is probably the most advantaged state in terms of human capital. In Alabama, high White-Black tension, have led to high crime rates and the infighting that is not conducive to innovation. Dealing with the aftermath of the horrible stain that was slavery is hard, but Alabama is probably doing the best it can given those headwinds.
    If you haven’t read these articles, you should, they explain most of modern politics today.
    http://www.unz.com/runz/the-myth-of-hispanic-crime/
    http://www.unz.com/runz/race-and-crime-in-america/
    http://www.unz.com/runz/racial-politics-in-america-and-in-california/
    Plus: This article showcases the sheer economic mobility of Hispanics
    https://www.wsj.com/articles/hispanic-household-income-climbs-1536792308

  4. Gravatar of Paul Paul
    30. July 2019 at 18:51

    If culture and social issues determine economic outcomes more than tax rates and the regulatory environment, that undermines the entire case for a laissez-faire system.

  5. Gravatar of ssumner ssumner
    30. July 2019 at 20:29

    Lorenzo, Clearly the answer is Chiang Kai-shek.

    I don’t think neoliberals are ignoring problems, they simply have different ideas as to the solution.

    PRC, You said:

    “If being overtly religious had impacted innovation, modern science and history would have started in East Asia, not Europe.”

    It’s a bit of a stretch to link that claim to my post. I was merely comparing California and Alabama. Both the UK and Spain were religious in the 1700s, but in different ways. No one is claiming that religion and innovation are incompatible.

    You said:

    “Dealing with the aftermath of the horrible stain that was slavery is hard, but Alabama is probably doing the best it can given those headwinds.”

    If nominating people like Roy Moore is the best they can do, then they need to try harder. But yes, California was probably dealt a more favorable hand. Nonetheless, even Georgia is doing much better than Alabama, so policy choices do matter. Atlanta and Birmingham used to be comparable cities.

    As far as Unz, he has a really checkered history, doesn’t he? Or have I been misinformed?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_Unz

    Paul, Actually, both are important, in my view. Let’s not forget that states like Texas and Florida are growing far faster than either Alabama or California.

  6. Gravatar of E. Harding E. Harding
    30. July 2019 at 21:25

    “In America, nationalism most certainly does involve American exceptionalism.”

    Alright, Sumner, pop quiz. Which candidate in 2016 proudly embraced “American exceptionalism” on the campaign trail? Which distanced from it, denouncing it as insulting to peer countries?

    Nationalism is a mere substitute for racism, which has a less artificial basis and has many more desirable properties.

  7. Gravatar of E. Harding E. Harding
    30. July 2019 at 21:28

    Unz is wrong on most subjects, but is correct on the narrow issue of Hispanic crime.

  8. Gravatar of mbka mbka
    31. July 2019 at 00:39

    Scott,

    “… edging from libertarianism toward national conservatism.

    Recently, I’m seeing quite a bit of that sort of transition, in all sorts of places. ”

    A long time ago you had some posts showing that the move towards neoliberalism was universal across governments and countries. In other words it was the Zeitgeist. Before that, socialist ideas had been en vogue, and even earlier, it had been nationalism. Not, it seems to be nationalism again.

    I (and a few friends) had an uneasy feeling when post-Berlin wall dissolution, nearly all European socialist intellectuals either fell silent or converted to neoliberalism. It just felt insincere, like people didn’t understand their mind shift and only adopted the current fashion.

    And the same thing now happens with the fashion that is nationalism or “national conservatism” (surely on the other side they’ll choose “national socialism” and the flip is complete). No one thinks this through it seems. People are just mirroring the Zeitgeist, mindlessly, thoughtlessly.

  9. Gravatar of John Thacker John Thacker
    31. July 2019 at 02:29

    One thing about that Alabama map is the strong correlation between dry counties and counties that opposed secession. The north south split in Alabama is long lasting, with north Alabama being hill country, with the same sort of people who opposed secession because they didn’t have slaves as in mountains of TN and NC, and some of the same tradition of both alcohol sales being illegal and moonshine. Scots-Irish territory.

  10. Gravatar of Michael Rulle Michael Rulle
    31. July 2019 at 04:14

    Compared to your very subtle and tight analysis of monetary questions, when you drift into social questions you make sweeping statements at a high level of generality, with conclusions de facto unsupported by your own rhetoric. You are very specific about California regulatory and tax burdens which create an enormous opportunity cost as well as being detrimental to those not in Silicon—-but then compare that to “pot” legality, prostitution—-why?—since as you say it is not legal—-, old people offing themselves, and freedom to abort to your hearts content. While I do tend to favor those latter laws, they do not come “scot free”. When you go after Alabama, there is no economic critique, but they do not “allow” suicide or abortion—which somehow you make us infer they are for Industrial Policy. Which I doubt.

    The one thing that continues to amaze me about anti-Trump people, is the horror policies it has produced within the newly constructed socialist Democratic Party. Trump actually has his strengths, never acknowledged, and the accusations against him are over the top—-primarily because they are “mirror” attacks which reflect also and more so on the views of the finger pointers.

    His trade policies smell like Industrial policies——but we still do not have one. Trump is very far from the ideal——but he has smoked out what the Left is really about—-you neglect the implication of sanctuary cities, the hatred of anyone who voted for him who are now called “complicit” (they love those Holocaust style words).

    You miss the power grab within our midst——and it is not Trump tweeting about West Baltimore.

  11. Gravatar of Michael Rulle Michael Rulle
    31. July 2019 at 04:42

    Scott, you mentioned your wife—-Presumably she is an immigrant from China. That is good—obviously. But how is that an issue? My wife and her family of 10 were peasant escapees literally illegally escaping from Castro’s Cuba——I certainly don’t fear she will be told to go back, nor does she. We have many—-as in double digits—-close friends who have come from South America, all who either plowed through the legal system to be here legally or who are registered in the system to get their cases adjudicated. It is not racist to want controlled entry. It is not racist to call out a very powerful House Chair for literally accusing a Border Officer of explicit child abuse. That is the language spewed forth every day in this country by a group of intersectional philosophies of “brown speaking brown” etc (which of course implies “white speaking white” , and their phony copycats, who really do hate the underlying bedrock doctrine of America as a place where we all assimilate as Americans—legally. So hate Trump—fine. But I prefer him to squads and power brokers masquerading as victims.

  12. Gravatar of Derrick Derrick
    31. July 2019 at 05:31

    Well written post Scott, I couldn’t have said it better myself. Conservatives don’t actually want small government and less regulation – they want small government and less regulation in the areas that benefit them, and that is hypocrisy.

  13. Gravatar of Alabamian Alabamian
    31. July 2019 at 05:33

    The wet/dry county issue is bizarre and I have lived in Alabama my entire life. That being said, it is also a bit misleading. All of those red “x”s on the map? Those are “wet” cities, in which you can buy alcohol. So even in the “dry” counties, “dry” only means that you can’t buy alcohol out in the rural areas away from the two or three biggest towns. It is a classic bootleggers and Baptists situation in which the cities’ business interests align with the literal Baptists, so there is enough of a coalition to maintain status quo.

  14. Gravatar of E. Harding E. Harding
    31. July 2019 at 06:22

    Re: the AL map, those are just White rural counties. Good correlation with Moore 2017/White Wallace/Carter vote.

  15. Gravatar of E. Harding E. Harding
    31. July 2019 at 06:29

    “National conservatism” is just another phrase for “Zioservatism”.

  16. Gravatar of ssumner ssumner
    31. July 2019 at 07:59

    mbka, Yes, but where does this zeitgeist come from? That’s the mystery.

    John, Interesting.

    Michael, You said:

    “It is not racist to want controlled entry”

    It’s hard to overstate just how idiotic your comment is. Trump did not tell those 4 women to go back to their own country because they were illegal immigrants. Three were even born here! You need to wake up to what’s going on in this country. 90% of the GOP refused to condemn Trump’s comments—that’s the modern Republican Party.

    Your other comment is so off topic there’s no need for me to respond.

    Alabamian, Thanks for pointing that out, I missed that. My opinion of Alabama just went up a bit.

  17. Gravatar of PRC PRC
    31. July 2019 at 08:47

    Scott,
    The zeitgeist is very simple in my opinion, secular stagnation has dampered people’s views on Neoliberalism. This is because so many of the parties that embrace neoliberalism, mainstream Democrats and Republicans, have failed to enact those policies in a manner that would produce fast increase in living standards. The result is that people look for something else, a new solution. The “conservative nationalism” is just something else that sounds appealing.
    The second reason why Neoliberals failed is immigration. Neoliberals believe that most immigrants are good for society, when reality is probably that we should be selective about who comes in. The failure of Merkel, for instance, on the migrant crisis is an example of this. Merkel embraced global, neoliberal values, and her failure casted a great shadow on the appeal of Neoliberal values.

  18. Gravatar of E. Harding E. Harding
    31. July 2019 at 09:18

    Yes; Trump is (rhetorically) anti-immigrant in general, not just anti-illegal immigrant. Everybody should understand this, by now. However, he is weak on both legal and illegal immigration.

    “90% of the GOP refused to condemn Trump’s comments—that’s the modern Republican Party.”

    This is inaccurate. Most Republicans clearly disagreed with Trump saying his comments. However, they did not think they were racist.

  19. Gravatar of E. Harding E. Harding
    31. July 2019 at 09:19

    PRC gets it.

  20. Gravatar of msgkings msgkings
    31. July 2019 at 09:31

    @Lorenzo:

    “Playing the nationalist card is also a standard way that commercial elites make a play for working class votes.”

    Exactly….that’s Trumpism

  21. Gravatar of Tim Tim
    31. July 2019 at 09:42

    Once you get away from hard Marxist-Leninism these disputes about liberty tend to just be restated preferences. There are a few things I like about CA and a lot of things I like about AL society. I could restate most of them in terms of liberty:

    Freedom to own cool firearms

    Freedom to carry a concealed handgun and probably not go to prison if it is justifiable used

    Freedom to not have children psychologically abused with environmental and gender ideologies in school

    Freedom to not see loads of overweight football obsessed southerners

    Freedom to not see Santa Muerte shrines

    Freedom to not see pride parades where men in BDS gear are led around on dog leashes

    Freedom to meet attractive aspiring actresses

    Freedom to meet southern bells

    Freedom writhe in terror in a hotel room bed after consuming cheebachews

    Freedom to not smell pot everywhere

    Freedom to not be accosted by homeless drug addicts

    Freedom to not hear casually dropped n-bombs

    Freedom to go to the Ghetty Villa

    Freedom to go to the Talladega Superspeedway

    On and on and on. You just like CA, Scott, and strongly dislike Alabama, and red staters in general. It’s fine to just say this, you don’t need to justify it in terms of “liberty”. You’re a blue stater and have irreconcilable differences with red staters. You should be advocating for a two state solution to the blue-red conflict. I think however that the thought of white rednecks going to Talladega, stuffing themselves with barbecue and then attending an evangelical church service is unacceptable to you. I think you want those sorts of people to be punished, reformed and disenfranchised. Right?

  22. Gravatar of Arilando Arilando
    31. July 2019 at 10:13

    E. Harding
    Unz’ claims about hispanic crime are more or less debunked in amren’s the color of crime.
    https://www.amren.com/archives/reports/the-color-of-crime-2016-revised-edition/
    In every age groups hispanics have a higher arrest rate for various crimes than whites. Of course if hispanics are replacing much more criminal blacks, that does make the crime rate go down if an area changes from black to hispanic.

  23. Gravatar of MORGAN WARSTLER MORGAN WARSTLER
    31. July 2019 at 11:40

    Scott, you lost your mind bc of your wife’s ties to China.

    I’d LOVE to get the real background here, Becuase we have tons of solid Trump-loving Chinese ladies in the country TONS OF THEM. Entrepreneurs all.

    So you and or your wife SOMEHOW don’t love the low tax, kick China’s ass in a tech Cold War Trump.

    BTW, EVERYONE should spend 3 hours with Weinstein’s Portal podcast with Theil – you folks clearly do not understand what Thiel (or I) am ging on about.

    CHINA IS THE ENEMY

    They are not the enemy bc we are racists, they are the enemy BECAUSE Chicom doesn’t wantt o BEND THE KNEE to US (I mean Texas style US) supremacy.

    China is firmly committed to building a backdoor in ALL networked tech and WE HAVE TO WIN THIS FIGHT JUST IN THE US – and we can’t do it IF WE ARENT 100% AGAINST THE USE TO CHINESE TECH IN EVERYTHING.

    Re-read that.

    Scott, you are not a Libertarian, not by a long mile. You just casually mentioned you’d rather money go to poor and PUBLIC EMPLOYEES instead of “favored” businesses???

    Dude whatever. I’m sorry you think theres a horde of American NAzis who want to tell your wife to go back to China.

    It’s very hard to take a person who thinks like this seriously.

    Yes, I reserve the right to tell Bernie and every other white socialist college professor GET THE FIUCK OUT OF MY COUNTRY – I reserve right to call them BETAS and LOSERS and be as mean and nasty as my words can be…

    Because thats what free Speech is for to break down the “other” and the OTHER is not someone who is another color – the OTHER is ANYONE WHO DOESNT BEND KNEE TO TEXAS AS BEST STATE. Yes, like bikinis, yes like football, hate soccer, yes love flag and support states’ rights and and and and

    Scott, I spent last week fishing in South Florida and listened to team of Chinese ladies all talking about Trump like he’s the king daddy shit.

    Why didn’t you marry one of those???

    And how dare you not say these are the best kind of Chinese ladies???

  24. Gravatar of Neon__Wolf Neon__Wolf
    31. July 2019 at 11:56

    Blog author wins dumbest comment of the year:

    Michael, You said:

    “It is not racist to want controlled entry”

    It’s hard to overstate just how idiotic your comment is. Trump did not tell those 4 women to go back to their own country because they were illegal immigrants. Three were even born here! You need to wake up to what’s going on in this country. 90% of the GOP refused to condemn Trump’s comments—that’s the modern Republican Party.

    No, Trump told those racist anti-semite socialists to leave because they keep making anti-America comments, they hate America!

    It is not racist to tell haters of America to leave America.

    It is racist to say what Tlaib and Omar have been saying about Jews.

    The reason you’re having a hissy fit at Michael’s comment is because you too hate America, and rather than accept the consequence of doing the logical, honorable thing of getting the heck out of the country and move to China that you love so much, you would prefer to fall prey to the radical left wing fake news narrative that Trump’s TOTALLY NORMAL comment was ‘racist’.

    The left plays the ‘race card’ when they don’t have an argument.

    You can’t square the circle of both hating America and yet staying here, so you too PROJECT and spew virtiol and accuse innocent people of being racist all because they love their country and tell those who hate America that if they hate it so much they can leave!

    Stop falling for the fake news narrative.

    YOU’RE SLEEPING

    WAKE UP.

    https://qanon.pub

  25. Gravatar of Neon__Wolf Neon__Wolf
    31. July 2019 at 12:08

    The 4 congresswomen have been making anti-semitic comments and the Demokkkrat party leadership has done NOTHING to discourage them.

    Trump is calling them out.

    And yet, according to this blog’s author, it is the Republican party that is racist?

    Look at King Elijah Cummings and how his rat infested Baltimore district received $15 BILLION in fed aid in 2018 alone, and it’s worse than ever for blacks living there.

    Trump nominated the FIRST EVER black female General.

    The Democrat Party is not the party of ‘anti-racism’. It’s the exact opposite.

    The Democrat Party founded the KKK.

    13th Amendment ABOLISHED SLAVERY
    100% Republican Support 23% Democrat Support

    15th Amendment RIGHT TO VOTE FOR ALL
    100% Republican Support 0% Democrat Support

    14th Amendment GAVE CITIZENSHIP TO FREED SLAVES
    94% Republican Support 0% Democrat Support

    Democrats formed the confederate states against freeing the slaves.

    Today, it is the Republican Party that is exposing the racism of the PROJECTING left.

    That’s what the left does. Accuse conservatives of what they themselves are doing and thinking.

  26. Gravatar of Neon__Wolf Neon__Wolf
    31. July 2019 at 12:10

    “The lesser of two Socialists is still a Socialist!” Senator John Kennedy of Louisiana

  27. Gravatar of Student Student
    31. July 2019 at 13:13

    “Yes, I reserve the right to tell Bernie and every other white socialist college professor GET THE FIUCK OUT OF MY COUNTRY – I reserve right to call them BETAS and LOSERS and be as mean and nasty as my words can be…”

    Actually you do not have the right to do this in Texas. It’s a class C Misdemeanor under Title 9, Chapter 42, Sec. 42.01., (a)(1) of the Texas penal code. Bend the knee.

  28. Gravatar of Student Student
    31. July 2019 at 13:25

    For the record it is also illegal to hold public office in Texas unless you acknowledge the existence of a supreme being, to promote the use of or own more that 6 dildos, to take more than 3 sips of beer while standing, to have wire cutters in your pocket (Austin), and apparently the encyclopedia britannica is banned because it contains the recipe for making beer at home. 😆

  29. Gravatar of MORGAN WARSTLER MORGAN WARSTLER
    31. July 2019 at 13:26

    Chinese knock off Evoque – tech transfer for the win!

    https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.carnewschina.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/landwind-x7-china-ready-1.jpg&imgrefurl=https://carnewschina.com/2014/11/26/landwind-x7-chinese-evoque-is-completely-ready-for-the-chinese-car-market/&tbnid=jZxZESRbXzOu5M&vet=1&docid=dD18bf-MNe_DMM&w=760&h=443&hl=en-us&source=sh/x/im

  30. Gravatar of MORGAN WARSTLER MORGAN WARSTLER
    31. July 2019 at 13:33

    Student incorrect, it’s not incitement or breach – it’s breaking another down others folks psyche. If you want to call it private convo, you can. Note, I do support disorderly conduct statutes in general.

    On the larger issue, all I can tell you it’s Voice > Guns. We prefer uninhibited free speech, bc it keeps the meaner folks from using sticks and stones.

    One way or the other, the weaker player is othered. That’s what speech does. Thats why hate speech isn’t a thing (well there more, but that’s part of it)

    But I do take this as you acknowledging that GTFO is MEAN, not RACIST.

  31. Gravatar of Student Student
    31. July 2019 at 13:40

    Supping person you are speaking to like that doesn’t pop you, then it isn’t incitement.

  32. Gravatar of ssumner ssumner
    31. July 2019 at 14:03

    PRC, You said:

    “The zeitgeist is very simple in my opinion”

    You lost me right there. The zeitgeist is changing almost everywhere in the world, even in places where a weak economy and immigration are not issues.

    Tim, You said:

    “You just like CA, Scott, and strongly dislike Alabama, and red staters in general.”

    I live in a deeply red city (Mission Viejo) and I prefer the people here to those living in Boston.

    If you don’t know anything about me, isn’t it better to simply remain silent?

  33. Gravatar of Tom Brown Tom Brown
    31. July 2019 at 15:23

    I’d think libertarians would want divided government, specifically a Democrat in the White House (doesn’t really matter which one it is) and at least one branch of congress controlled by the GOP.

    Under these circumstances the GOP pretends they hate deficits and authoritarian executive policies and will do all in their power to block them. And they do have some success. This doesn’t happen with any other combination.

  34. Gravatar of Tom Brown Tom Brown
    31. July 2019 at 15:32

    Neon__Wolf’s echoing of the tired trope that the Democrats are the real racists fails to account for the fact that political parties change over time. Yes, it’s true there are racists in both parties. But it’s also true that civil rights legislation in the 1960s set in motion a change which eventually made the Old Confederacy solid GOP territory
    https://www.vox.com/2018/7/9/17525860/nazis-russell-walker-arthur-jones-republicans-illinois-north-carolina-virginia

  35. Gravatar of Tom Brown Tom Brown
    31. July 2019 at 15:35

    This was a pretty good article by Kevin Williamson I thought:

    https://www.nationalreview.com/2019/07/which-party-can-we-blame-for-poverty-and-crime/

  36. Gravatar of JCU JCU
    1. August 2019 at 06:07

    Would Alabama do this?

    Remember all that angst and anger expressed by progressives that President Trump would ignore judicial orders, rig election laws, and maybe even refuse to give up power if he loses in 2020? We’re still waiting for any of that to happen. But that hasn’t stopped Democrats from stretching the Constitution to defeat Mr. Trump.

    The latest example came Tuesday from California when Governor Gavin Newsom signed a law that would bar Mr. Trump from the state primary ballot unless he discloses his tax returns. That’s right. California Democrats are trying to keep a sitting President from running for re-election in their state.
    Radicals Vs. Pragmatists
    Subscribe

    “These are extraordinary times and states have a legal and moral duty to do everything in their power to ensure leaders seeking the highest offices meet minimal standards, and to restore public confidence,” Mr. Newsom, a Democrat, said in a statement.

  37. Gravatar of Jeff Jeff
    1. August 2019 at 10:35

    What happens with both parties is that when the opposing party holds the Presidency, the more ideological people make claims that the only way to regain power is to hew more closely to their ideology. At the same time, within the party that is in power, the ideologues lose some of their influence as many party members are quite willing to adjust their principles to get a job with the Administration. We’ve seen this happen in both parties for decades.
    You can clearly see this happening with respect to immigration, which did not used to be much of a partisan issue. But since Trump ran on it and won, people who want to get jobs with or curry favor with his Administration toe the anti-immigrant line. Some Democrats, at least, used to decry immigration as cheap labor that undercut demands for higher wages. But since Trump has taken possession of that populist argument, it now seems required that Democrats must be extremely pro-immigration, legal or not.
    We see these same kinds of reversals on other issues as well. Republicans used to oppose big deficits, at least they claimed to. Now neither party seems to care about them. Since the end of WWII, Democrats have favored a more dovish approach to the Soviet Union and later Russia than the Republicans did. Until 2016, that is, when Trump’s supposed collusion with Russia became an article of faith for Democrats.
    The lesson from all of this is that it’s foolish to think politicians in either party care about much other than gaining power.

  38. Gravatar of Mike Hinton Mike Hinton
    1. August 2019 at 11:51

    I about lost it when I saw it was Titus who wrote that Peter Thiel article. I actually know that guy!

    Interesting and strange Romanian.

Leave a Reply