Section 230 bleg
Trump is at it again:
Trump, with less than two months remaining in office before he’s replaced by president-elect Joe Biden, stepped up his campaign seeking to revoke Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act. The law grants internet companies broad legal protections for content shared on their services and allows companies like Facebook, Twitter and YouTube to moderate content on their services as they see fit.
Matt Yglesias says he couldn’t continue with his moderated blog without section 230:
Here’s my question. If Section 230 is repealed, could I be sued for statements made by random people in the comment section of this blog?
(BTW, I certainly don’t want the government to “address” either big tech or little tech.)
Off topic, the Biden win margin is up to 4.3%, and continues to widen. That means the Electoral College bias, which I predicted would expand to 3.5% in this election, is already up to 3.7%, and may hit 4%. The national vote margin is up to 6.9 million, and will widen further as more and more votes get counted. And BTW, isn’t it kind of embarrassing for America still to be counting votes a month after the election?
PS. General Flynn was one of the criminals that Trump hired to run his administration. Today he shared an interesting tweet:
Of course sharing a tweet doesn’t mean one endorses it. Nonetheless, there’s a side of me that would kind of like to see Trump do this. Let’s have the public vote once and for all on whether people prefer America remain a constitutional republic or become an authoritarian state. And let’s have a vote done using a method with no possibility of fraud.
It might “clarify” things. Which is of course is why its proponents don’t actually favor this idea, and are promoting it with the knowledge that there is zero chance it will be implemented.
It’s like the Ukraine thing. Obviously Trump didn’t want Ukraine to investigate Biden; they would have exonerated him. Trump wanted Ukraine to say they were investigating Biden. Similarly, Trump knows who won, which is why he won’t do this. But he wants people to believe that only a re-vote would establish who actually won.
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2. December 2020 at 12:40
Trump is acting exactly how anyone with even a rudimentary brainstem would have predicted based on how he behaved in 2010. He’s a mentally disturbed spoiled rotten lying toddler in an old man’s body.
2. December 2020 at 12:51
I am not a 230 expert—-but the controversy is that a website defined as an open forum that charges the public indirectly—excludes comments it does not like–almost 90% political in nature. No one complains they include comments. But if eliminating 230 permits suing they need another solution. Yes, it is a public company—and perhaps we should just think of it as MSNBC—which also excludes comments.
As I said–not a 230 expert—but I think Fb and Twitter suck–and I do not use either for politics–don’t read it or write it—-so Twitter is never used but FB is.
2. December 2020 at 13:02
I will make a wild guess— I do not believe you approved of how we voted this year—–the whole thing put together—I think you would want it changed to a more open and well defined method (you know, something crazy—even like voting just on election day—or some other way)
2. December 2020 at 14:02
You could be sued today based on comments on your blog. S230 provides a procedural remedy that would allow a court to dismiss the case early so that you are not forced to incur large legal fees defending yourself.
In a post S230 world (highly dependent on if new regulations are enacted or its simply revoked) you can be sued and highly likely to win under First Amendment applications. Unfortunately, you will have to spend a fortune in legal fees to get there unless you just settle (which is likely to just encourage others to do the same).
A very good explainer here: https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20200531/23325444617/hello-youve-been-referred-here-because-youre-wrong-about-section-230-communications-decency-act.shtml
2. December 2020 at 15:24
It’s important to remember that when Trump and his supporters discuss decapitation of public officials, beating up reporters, and imposition of martial law they are only joking. Left wing types can’t take a joke.
2. December 2020 at 15:37
An explanaition that I’ve heard (IANAL) is that you can either
1) Permit unmoderated comments on your blog. Then it works like a message board and you are not responsible for the content of the comments (maybe you still have to delete them if they are illigal or something) or
2) Be completely responsible for what your commenters post. You can moderate the comments whichever way you want, but risk to be sued for libel etc.
Sec. 230 suspends this dichotomy and allows moderated comments for which owners are not responsible.
2. December 2020 at 15:49
On you P.S. The fact of the matter is that Trump cannot suspend the Constitution. To do so he needs FBI, Pentagon, National Guard and all other quasi-military forces to support him. But they won’t. Whatever leftist looneys say, together armed forces enjoy a high degree of public support and they won’t risk it to protect Trump even if they prefer his policies and don’t mind him calling them losers. And this is ignoring a small fact that most of them are patriots and would not want to destroy the Republic.
A legal approach to the revote is a constitutional amendment and it would be an enormous entertainment to see what happens if McConnel schedules a debate on it.
2. December 2020 at 16:13
Sorry for serial posting, but this is too good to pass up. I just learned that Trump threatens to veto defence authorization if Congress doesn’t include the repeal of sec. 230. He couldn’t made a better choice. This is probably the only bill on which veto will be overturned in, I don’t know, 15 minutes?
2. December 2020 at 17:46
As a founding member of Americans Not Against Liberty, I totally support sec. 230.
Yes, we have no bananas.
Biden won the popular vote, far and away. He is and should be the winner of the election
But be careful what you wish for. If you review his choices for defense-intelligence positions, you see the (expensive) defense establishment firmly in control.
Look for “free trade” and war-mongering to rise to the top in the Biden Administration.
Why does the US make offshore wars? To protect “American interests.”
Whose are those interests? Not mine, or no one I know.
From the National Review:
“Biden’s New Team: A Good Day for BlackRock (and Corporatism)”
From BackRock’s website:
“Why BlackRock for China
To help discover the opportunities these changes provide, you need a trusted partner who is not only an expert on China but can apply their knowledge, expertise and judgement in creating portfolios that can deliver the best of Chinese markets to you. BlackRock’s large and experienced team can provide you with a truly differentiated perspective on China and our breadth of solutions across active and index strategies give you a multitude of ways to access the market.”
—30—
Well, everything fine and dandy in China! Opportunities!
2. December 2020 at 18:45
Thanks Chris and D.O., Those explanations are helpful.
2. December 2020 at 23:52
Chris raises a fascinating point.
One time I was sued, entirely without merit, on a real estate transaction I decided to not go through with. I had black-letter law and endless court cases on my side, industry norms and all the rest, but I was told it would cost $10,000 to get the case dismissed, or we could settle for a lesser amount.
Fine and dandy, but how many bloggers, or even small news outfits, could withstand a string of lawsuits?
3. December 2020 at 04:29
DO,
Your explanation jives with my understanding of 230, however you do seem to have a deeper understanding than I do. Follow up question, Scott actively engages with the commenters, as opposed to simply providing a platform like a message board. Does that change the equation?
3. December 2020 at 07:03
Only in the delusional mind of Scott “CCP” Sumner do fair elections fall into the category of tyranny.
And impressive list of Mathematicians, Computer Scientists, Mailman, a Dominion Employee, on site tech advisors, poll watchers, citizens with cameras and election officials made serious allegations of fraud – ranging from statistical impossibilities to witnessing manufactured votes.
The sheer volume of allegations, coupled with the expertise of many witnesses, can only bring a sane person (remember Sumner is INSANE), to one irrefutable conclusion: the election was not conducted in a manner that resembles anything close to fairness or accuracy.
You clearly fail to grasp 230. It has nothing to do with commentators. Although, I love that you are getting a bit riled up. Liars like yourself are always a bit afraid of the truth.
Now let’s talk about totalitarianism:
1. The left supports unconstitutional mandates that tell you what to do inside your home, and small business.
2. The left supports the CCP (extermination camps and big brother)
3. The left is funded by the top 1%.
4. Cities run by the left are bankrupt (corrupt leadership)
5. The left supports zoning laws (corrupt leadership)
6. The left supports high taxes and big govt programs (corrupt)
7. The left supports removing private property (so they can steal your wealth)
8. The left supports reeducation camps (disagree and pay the price)
9. The left controls all of the largest media companies (propaganda)
10. The left supports endless war (military industrial complex)
11. The left supports huge international govt bodies that dictate maxims to the world. (UN is a joke)
21. The left supports taking your right to self defense, and your only means of fighting back against tyranny
22. The left supports killing people (even after they are born) under the guise of “choice” and “humaneness”.
At every turn the left wants to take away your liberty.
The right just wants to get government apparatchiks and loser academics (like Sumner) out of their way so that they can enjoy two big beautiful words called freedom and liberty.
3. December 2020 at 07:09
Yes, trump is secretly trying to destroy America, and the great Mayor Giuliani is trying to help him.
This couldn’t possibly be about allegations of fraud by American citizens. It must all be one giant conspiracy to overthrow America and keep trump in power for the next 50 years.
The Great Trump Conspiracy and Scott Sumner at 9pm tonight on the Chinese News Network
🙂 🙂
This is just getting more hilarious. I love reading these nonsensical posts.
3. December 2020 at 08:08
Bias. Bias. Bias.
Sumner Fact Check!
1. Flynn is not a criminal. He’s an American Patriot, hero, and former general. Being a General takes a lot more guts and courage than sitting behind a desk criticizing others. He simply had a conservation with RU officials during transition – no different than what Biden staffers are doing now. If he was guilty, so are Biden staffers. You cannot have your cake and eat it too.
2. Nevada audit of 1,440 ballots identified 3% of the ballots as fraud. That was a SAMPLE.
3. In an Arizona sample of 100 ballots, 2 ballots or 2% were found to be fraudulent. The court is now allowing a larger sample size to be tested. If 2% of those ballots are found to be fraudulent too. As such, we are looking at potentially massive fraud ranging between 60K and 100K votes in Arizona alone.
Similar claims have been made in other states. Will we get a fair election. Or will Joe Biden and his corrupt class of globalist losers steal it from us.
Free and Fair. It’s all we want.
3. December 2020 at 08:40
These posts are becoming moronic.
He takes A, and jumps to G, then back C, then over to Z.
The logic is baffling…
He’s clearly a gone the “conspiracy theory” route.
Al Gore did not concede until 2 days before electors were announced. And Gore’s entire lawsuit was predicated on “intent” of the voter, and “interpretation of the intent” by ballot counters. There were ZERO allegations of fraud.
We are still 11 days from formal distribution, have mounting allegations and witnesses purporting fraud, and Sumner’s brilliant response is to conclude that there is a grand conspiracy of dictatorial ambitions?
It would be comical if it was not so pathetic.
3. December 2020 at 08:54
Trumpistas, I can’t wait to see the look on your faces!
3. December 2020 at 09:09
The reason Sumner hates Trump, is because Trump is successful.
It’s called old man bitter syndrome. Sumner has finally realized in his old — and I do mean super old — age that he will never be a billionaire, that he’s not going to change the world, or bend history. He’s realized he’s not good enough to do those things.
Instead of embracing his limited potential and enjoying life like the rest of us, he’s desperately trying to hang onto the dream of being humanities hero.
Well, you are not! So deal with it.
3. December 2020 at 12:40
I think Biden’s guilty in Ukraine and wanted him investigated. Its either illegal what happened there or extremely unethical. I can’t personally sort it out, but would have liked a full investigative report.
Flynn isn’t a criminal. And Taibbi/Greenwald have both said it was a stupid investigation. Logan Act should be eliminated and is probably unconstitutional. He didn’t commit a crime. He may have lied to investigators but many liberals don’t think an innocent man should go to jail over statements.
3. December 2020 at 12:52
https://twitter.com/JennaEllisEsq/status/1334567215618805761
So I wonder what the Scott “CCP” Sumner narrative will be now that video evidence of fraud has emerged.
Lin Wood is an American legend!
3. December 2020 at 14:17
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1334600813327609880
This is great news that Sumner’s left communist party is allowing us to buy votes now.
How much to buy off Sumner’s vote. $5. $10. I know he’s poor, so lowballing sounds like a good start.
Multiply that by more poor commies in MA, with their pot holed filled roads and dilapidated colonial homes, and we can turn the John Adams federalist hell hole until a Thomas Jefferson republican stronghold.
3. December 2020 at 15:30
https://twitter.com/CongressmanHice/status/1334609467703521283
Suitcases of ballots?
Democrats have turned this country into a banana republic.
3. December 2020 at 16:01
Janice, You said:
“The reason Sumner hates Trump, is because Trump is successful.”
Apparently 7.1 million votes less successful than Biden. But yes, he was successful in inheriting tens of millions of dollars from his daddy, and I was not. He was successful in defrauding students at his fake university. He was successful in stiffing his creditors in one bankruptcy after another.
Sean, Trump didn’t want Ukraine to investigate Biden, he wanted them to say they were investigating Biden.
3. December 2020 at 20:30
Scott you ask, “Here’s my question. If Section 230 is repealed, could I be sued for statements made by random people in the comment section of this blog?”
I consulted this Law Review Article: https://escholarship.org/content/qt7g87m864/qt7g87m864.pdf?t=nncw9m
Page 131 has this footnote:
In the old regime, a site like Econlog with active moderation might have trouble. Section 230 was intended to protect an intermediary (yourself) even if actively curating posts by users. The drafting was so broad though that immunity is unconditional (whether you curate or not). The immunity is so broad that AirBnB cited it to challenge city ordinances against short term rentals. (AirBnB has immunity for listings of illicit rentals).
3. December 2020 at 21:47
https://bongino.com/hewlett-packard-enterprises-is-the-latest-company-to-flee-california-for-texas
If you follow Sumner’s Communist and draconian policies this is precisely what will continue to happen. Instead of CA to TX, it will be USA to “fill in the blank ________________”
3. December 2020 at 21:50
And that is precisely why loser pelosi wants another 3 trillion. It has nothing to do with stimulus for businesses. She is simply trying to rescue her state from an epic collapse. The coastal loser states of MA, NY and CA have been taking money from the heartland for years in an effort to stave off mismanagement and ultimately bankruptcy.
But that trend will not continue. Once businesses leave CA, NY and MA, there will be little impetus to redistribute.
4. December 2020 at 00:02
Ok-so cognitive decline… Think we recognize it now we see it
https://www.scottadamssays.com/2020/12/03/episode-1206-scott-adams-why-biden-will-start-to-look-worse-every-day-the-republic-becomes-a-bullyocracy-coronavirus-lies/
4. December 2020 at 08:58
More disgusting moral relativism from the CCP
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1249914?__twitter_impression=true
This is what the democratic party wants. They view you as expendable. There are no universal rights in the communist democrat model. Only utility.
Sumner may not care. But for future generations we cannot allow the Biden/Harris/Sumner communist party to take office. Trump must declare the insurrection act. We are under attack from within.
4. December 2020 at 09:26
Oh yes, right. 5000 affidavits, expert witness with PhD’s in computer science and mathematics, video evidence of ballots being stuffed into the machine at 1am in the morning, but this is all just make believe. Must be a grand conspiracy. Trump is Hitler. Trump is just making this all up. Those 5000 people are lying. That video is lying. Those mathematicians are lying.
The fantasy world of scott sumner is quite impressive. I need to start smoking whatever he is smoking. Give me some of that brother. I need that kind of imagination.
4. December 2020 at 10:40
Jon, The problem is that I interact with commenters, so someone could claim I had reason to know a comment was libelous.
Mike, Adams’s denial that Biden won is hilarious. So many people have had their reputations ruined forever by Trump.
Nick, You said:
“expert witness with PhD’s in computer science and mathematics”
Wow! That’s impressive.
4. December 2020 at 11:05
https://twitter.com/tgpwlm/status/1334659896076357634
communist democrats at it again. 3000 ballots found in the lake. Guess who they were for?
A persons vote is sacred. You don’t throw it in the lake because you don’t agree with it.
4. December 2020 at 13:14
“Mike, Adams’s denial that Biden won is hilarious. So many people have had their reputations ruined forever by Trump.”
Still, Sax’s point that Adams is suffering from cognitive decline is probably worth considering. I actually don’t think it’s true – I just think Adams is essentially in a “bubble” of sorts where obvious objections to his points don’t seem to get through to him.
And actually while clearly many obvious objections haven’t achieved penetration (or at least acknowledgement) yet, I think some of them are slowly getting there. For example I think he’s kind of figured out that no good evidence of election fraud is going to be forthcoming, so he’s pivoted to an argument along the lines of “the fraud was so well done there will never be any evidence.”
4. December 2020 at 16:03
There is no evidence. Sidney Powell’s lawsuit is a joke.
https://mobile.twitter.com/LLinWood/status/1335008046641258496
That’s why a judge ordered a forensic investigation of machines.
Scott “CCP” Sumner’s arguments are pathetic.
Stop the Steal!
4. December 2020 at 22:05
It really does not matter if Trump or Biden comes out the winner. I watched all the testimony from honest citizens. Anyone who watched this testimony knows that the election was a fraud in the swing states. In this respect Trump did the country a favor. Maybe now that we know for sure that the dems cheat we can do something about it.
4. December 2020 at 22:13
Scott, I’d have thought after ten+ years of us you would have pled insanity. But yes that is exactly what happened. Prodigy was sued and lost!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stratton_Oakmont,_Inc._v._Prodigy_Services_Co.
5. December 2020 at 16:12
why no one talked about the fake video in Georgia? Purely made up!
https://www.kusi.com/security-camera-footage-from-atlanta-ga-allegedly-shows-ballots-being-counted-overnight/
6. December 2020 at 09:35
Trumpistas, Don’t worry, Trump’s crack legal team will prevail in the courts!
8. December 2020 at 00:39
“Still, Sax’s point that Adams is suffering from cognitive decline is probably worth considering. I actually don’t think it’s true – I just think Adams is essentially in a “bubble” of sorts where obvious objections to his points don’t seem to get through to him”
Yeah Anon my main point was just as Adams and Friends are so quick to accuse Joe of ‘cognitive decline’ it’s kind of ironic how unhinged they’re acting.
“And actually while clearly many obvious objections haven’t achieved penetration (or at least acknowledgement) yet, I think some of them are slowly getting there. For example I think he’s kind of figured out that no good evidence of election fraud is going to be forthcoming, so he’s pivoted to an argument along the lines of “the fraud was so well done there will never be any evidence.”
My own best guess is that a certain subset of them will NEVER get there. This is going to be a kind of bloody shirt for the Trumpsters for years in the future where they will NEVER admit he lost.
Many Republicans in Congress may never feel they can totally drop this baseless canard-as the base will always believe it. Even though Trump lost, a number of Trumpy new Republicans are going to Congress-lots of them are QAnon-who believe all Democrats are pedophiles-and interestingly many are women.
This is where we are today as a country where 30% of the country may never admit they lost an election that was decided by 7 million votes.
And these are the two articles of faith you need to be part of this base:
A. That Trump actually won an election that was a near landslide loss-as would be clear if not for the Dems’ huge EC disadvantage added to their voter density problem
B. And the QAnon conspiracy that believes all Democrats are pedophiles
https://www.nytimes.com/article/what-is-qanon.html
8. December 2020 at 01:14
BTW this is nothing for Democrats like me to feel smug about. Batty ideas can be highly mobilizing politically-like Birtherism propelled Trump 2016.
But David Jolly-the former FL GOP Congressman-is right: Trump lost and the GOP is glad to be done with him but Trumpism has benefited them politically and it will go on.