Long ago, in a GOP far, far away
Here’s something I didn’t know:
Such vitriolic sentiment stands in stark contrast to the unifying message of the most recent GOP occupant of the White House, President George W. Bush, in whose administration I was honored to serve for both terms. During the 2000 campaign for example, Bush praised the faith of Americans who regularly attended a “church, synagogue, or mosque,” met with Muslim American supporters across the country, and visited a prominent Islamic center in Michigan — the first major presidential candidate from either party to do so. The GOP convention in Philadelphia was the first in either national party’s history to feature a Muslim prayer. And after Muslim American community leaders expressed their civil liberties concerns regarding a provision of Clinton’s 1996 immigration enforcement legislation, Bush publicly promised to repeal the provision in the second presidential debate with Vice President Al Gore.
Bush’s inclusive efforts earned him the endorsement of eight major Muslim American organizations. By election day, more than 70 percent of the Muslim vote — including 46,200 ballots in just Florida — went in his favor. And after his 2001 swearing-in, Bush appointed a record number of Muslim Americans to senior positions in the White House and throughout his new administration.
I know, in a close election any bloc of votes could be viewed as decisive. But raise your hand if you knew the GOP won 70% of Muslim votes in 2000.
Raise you hand if you think they’ll win 70% in 2016.
Fortunately the GOP hasn’t been demonizing other groups like blacks, Mexicans, Chinese, Japanese, etc.
PS. Saw Star Wars today.
Tags:
27. December 2015 at 16:31
If you’d have read your Steve Sailer, you’d know that George W. Bush pandered to Arabs by saying during his election campaign (in 2000) that he’d crack down on their profiling by airport security. And, yes, Arabs are natural Republicans (then again, in the U.S., most of them are Christians). But Blacks, Mexicans, Chinese, and possibly Japanese are certainly natural Democrats. I strongly doubt Bush won as much as 70% of the Muslim vote. The Muslim Arab vote, maybe. A lot of the Muslim vote isn’t Arab; it’s Black or South Asian. The first Muslims in the U.S. Congress were slave-descendant Blacks.
27. December 2015 at 16:42
Supposedly 30+% of US Muslims are black. That would imply Bush got close to 100% of the nonblack Muslim vote. So this 70% may include some sample error…not that many Muslims in the US to poll and polls cost money.
27. December 2015 at 16:51
Nobody panders to us atheists.
🙁
That’s OK.
27. December 2015 at 17:30
E. Harding and Stefan, Yes, the 70% figure is probably exaggerated. But still, whatever it was, it’s lower today.
E. Harding, I have no idea how Japanese vote, but refusing to condemn their roundup in 1942 seems like a sort of stupid move for the GOP. But that’s just me.
Bill, Don’t you think Trump’s an atheist? 🙂
27. December 2015 at 17:46
GOP != trump, yet.
If Rubio gets nod is the GOP giving the bird to blacks, Mexicans, Chinese, Japanese, etc. Quite the opposite l.
27. December 2015 at 18:01
Yes, there was even talk back in 2000 of a coalition between right wing GOP Christians and global Islamics. Forgotten today is that the Bush administration gave $100 million to the Taliban as they were eradicating opium in Afghanistan. Or that Bush very publicly visited a mosque after 9/11 and did various kissyface poses with Saudi princes.
Jeb Bush is gonna lose anyway, but his recent comments about how wonderful Muslims are will definitely lose him the GOP nomination.
I still think the best description I have heard of Donald Trump is that he is “Trumpenstein.”
The GOP has scaremongered on Islamic terrorists for more than a decade. The right wing has suffocated the economy with its tight money dogmas.
Hello Donald Trump.
27. December 2015 at 18:05
If this is the poll, as appears likely, it may not be credible. Basically, activists surveying their own followers.
http://www.meforum.org/13/how-did-muslims-vote-in-2000
27. December 2015 at 18:19
“Bill, Don’t you think Trump’s an atheist?”
-He might be (though I doubt it), but he certainly never panders to us.
@Jon
-Rubio would be a disaster. Carson, worse. Only Trump can save the GOP from certain defeat.
@ssumner
According to http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/files/2013/04/Asian-Americans-new-full-report-04-2013.pdf
it seems Japanese are natural Democrats. Only first-generation Vietnamese, Koreans (guess they remember Rodney King) and Filipinos (?!?) are natural Republicans.
27. December 2015 at 18:54
Sumner doing something in this post Steve Sailor might do: typecast people into pigeonholes.
27. December 2015 at 19:21
> it seems Japanese are natural Democrats. Only first-generation Vietnamese, Koreans (guess they remember Rodney King) and Filipinos (?!?) are natural Republicans.
Koreans and Filipinos are very Christian. Vietnamese (in the US) hate commies.
27. December 2015 at 20:52
Long ago, in a Democrat party far, far away…
Democrats were able to own the Jewish vote and split the white and christian votes.
However, since 2000, support for Republicans grew
among Jews, from 19% to 30%
White Catholics from 52% to 59%
White Protestants from 63% to 69%
http://www.pewforum.org/2012/11/07/how-the-faithful-voted-2012-preliminary-exit-poll-analysis/
27. December 2015 at 21:16
@jonathan
-This is true to a much greater extent with Indians. Christian Indians are much more likely to be Republicans than Hindu ones.
27. December 2015 at 22:50
America should be a tolerant nation. I am tolerant of all religions even though I have my personal religious views. That is the American way. Zionism is not Judaism, so I am not as tolerant of Zionism. But I am tolerant of Judaism, Muslim religion, Buddhists, Indian religion, and any other attitude is simply bigotry. Most nominal Christians that are on the right are fake. But I even tolerate them.
Zionism is something different. It is political, has roots in the late 1800’s, and is the ruling cabal of the western world. It allowed liar loans, regime change, fake wars on terror to cover regime change, and global harming of the American economy. JFK was not a Zionist, and he paid for it. He was a liberal for gun rights as I am. I don’t believe in gun violence, just for the right to arm oneself which works as a deterrent to those who would lean on other rights we have.
27. December 2015 at 23:14
@ Gary
-Most Jews are Zionists, as well as practically all U.S. politicians. Also, most of the U.S. public, and especially the educated public. Yes; the Israel lobby is powerful. But the Israel lobby only succeeds in the U.S. due to American Jewish power. There is an American Mexican lobby, but it’s marginal by comparison.
“It allowed liar loans, regime change, fake wars on terror to cover regime change, and global harming of the American economy.”
-What you’re talking about is not merely Zionist power (which is basically all power in the U.S. these days), but Jewish power. It’s not the ideology, it’s the race and its members’ self interest. Russia and Brighton Beach in the 1990s would not have looked too different were its oligarchs completely anti-Zionist.
-Yes; very anti-Zionist. Now Trump, however, that’s a man who can stand up to the Elders of Zion.
28. December 2015 at 06:34
Why should the Muslim vote be important? It might be smarter to focus on the White vote and the Hispanic vote first, then also women and Blacks. Trump is pretty bad regarding the Hispanic/Black/female vote I guess, but somebody like Cruz/Bush/Rubio might make real improvements there.
I also found the same article that Steve found and as far as I understood it it’s doubtful that Bush got 70% of the Muslim vote.
“Saw Star Wars today.”
So how was it? It’s still at 94% at RT according to critics while the audience rates it at 91%. Both ratings seem pretty high to me. Is this in any way justified? Or to phrase it in another way: Is there something like market failure regarding aesthetics?
28. December 2015 at 07:42
“-What you’re talking about is not merely Zionist power (which is basically all power in the U.S. these days), but Jewish power.”
Wrong, many rabbis converted from Judaism to Zionism in the early 20th century. They no longer practice Judaism. And the number of Jews realizing this is a growing number.
The number of Jews in America who are non Zionists, meaning they just ignore Israel, is growing, especially among young Jews.
You want to make it a race issue, when Obama is a Zionist, Biden is a Zionist and Cheney is a Zionist. Without big oil, Zionist regime change would not have happened. It was an evil team effort. God will judge Zionism for having attempted to establish Zion against His will.
New Covenant Christians and True Torah Jews know Zionism is not Judaism, and Israel wants to destroy the True Torah Jews because they are a witness to the error that Zionism is.
28. December 2015 at 10:52
“Trump is pretty bad regarding the Hispanic/Black/female vote I guess, but somebody like Cruz/Bush/Rubio might make real improvements there.”
-Oh, God, no. Cruz, Bush, and Rubio are scary guys.
“The number of Jews in America who are non Zionists, meaning they just ignore Israel, is growing, especially among young Jews.”
-Still not a majority.
“You want to make it a race issue, when Obama is a Zionist, Biden is a Zionist and Cheney is a Zionist.”
-Yes, that’s what I said:
“Most Jews are Zionists, as well as practically all U.S. politicians”
And it is a race issue. The relative power of any ethnic group in a free society comes largely from their genes, not religious beliefs or lack of them (though those matter, too). Also, what was your reaction to the Kennedy quote?
Again, Russia and Brighton Beach in the 1990s would not have looked too different were its oligarchs completely anti-Zionist.
28. December 2015 at 10:54
Gary, I’m very tolerant of loony conspiracy buffs.
Christian, I’ll do my year end review of films in a few weeks.
28. December 2015 at 11:16
Who speaks for the GOP?
Who speaks for the DNC?
Trump’s popularity is he has claimed the opposite side of issues from leadership of both party and, in the process, shown how out of touch the party leadership is from the sensibilities of the American people.
28. December 2015 at 12:36
From Gary: “Most nominal Christians that are on the right are fake. But I even tolerate them.”
This is so MONEYILLUSION !!!
Did anybody crack up on this line as I did? Not commenting on the subject matter, just think it funny that we go from talking nominal and real interest rates all year to nominal and real christians during the holidays !!!
28. December 2015 at 13:13
Scott, understanding conspiracies does require some intelligence. Sometimes technocrats don’t get it because they can only see the trees, not the forest. Mispricing of risk was a conspiracy. And BAC even verified it!!
Lol, Frank, yes, it must have been preordained. Nominal and real is the theme. Glad I could stick with it!!
28. December 2015 at 16:31
“it seems Japanese are natural Democrats.” This may not be a good assumption. I’m from a fairly large extended Japanese American family. My mother and some of my uncles spent part of their childhood in the internment camps. Even though every Japanese American politician off the top of my head has been a Democrat, I can tell you that political discussions over family holiday gatherings indicate we have a decent mix of Democrats and Republicans.
28. December 2015 at 17:44
@Gordon
-Well, they’re not the strongest natural democrats. Those are Blacks.
28. December 2015 at 21:34
“Gary, I’m very tolerant of loony conspiracy buffs.”
I forgot to thank you, Scott. Thank you for your tolerance. I think you are a tolerant person, and it is the American way, and is not the Trump way. Unfortunately, many tolerant politicians, those that Harding spoke about, are tolerant in America but wink at the apartheid of Israel. Hypocritical, IMO.
29. December 2015 at 06:10
It seems to be a natural law that any blog allowing unmoderated comments eventually attracts the anti-Semites. It is really amazing how this stuff just never goes away.
29. December 2015 at 07:57
Jeff, my natural father was Jewish. Do not make the fatal error of confusing anti Zionism with anti Semitism. True Torah Jews are anti Zionist. They are hardly anti Semitic.
29. December 2015 at 08:31
Think you can ‘Chair the Fed’? Give it a try in @sffeded’s monetary policy game:
http://www.frbsf.org/education/teacher-resources/chair-federal-reserve-economy-simulation-game?utm_source=hootsuite
29. December 2015 at 08:32
Larry Summers: Here’s what Bernie Sanders gets wrong – and right – about the Fed
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/12/29/larry-summers-heres-what-bernie-sanders-gets-wrong-and-right-about-the-fed
29. December 2015 at 08:49
Great stuff by Benjamin Cole:
https://thefaintofheart.wordpress.com/2015/12/25/pondering-china-the-peoples-bank-of-china-and-qe
https://thefaintofheart.wordpress.com/2015/12/29/when-reagan-did-a-nixon
29. December 2015 at 10:35
Dan, Please don’t tell me that you think Trump represents “The American People”
This comment section has been taken over by lunatics.
29. December 2015 at 10:40
OMG, the Fed is not a public institution. Everyone who works for the Fed including Janet Yellen is not paid by the government. Summers is a liar. Check out Lewis VS the United States 1982 if you think I am wrong.
The Fed has a mandate to protect the big banks because it is not a real government agency any more than the bank Andrew Jackson chased from our shores was a government agency.
29. December 2015 at 11:45
Man those muslim voters didn’t see Wolfowitz et. al coming!
Scott the GOP is way, way more polite on black issues than much of the base prefers, especially considering the demagoguery coming from the hard left and the mini crime wave reversal that’s underway.
29. December 2015 at 11:54
“Man those muslim voters didn’t see Wolfowitz et. al coming!”
Wolfowitz and regime change was evil, and created many innocent refugees. It is a wicked doctrine and the war on terror is a lame cover for regime change, which is a war crime. Leo Strauss, Wolfowitz’s mentor at University of Chicago was an evil man who said you keep the shell of democracy and lie to the masses. Bush and Obama, both Aionist globalists, have lied to the masses continually.
29. December 2015 at 12:30
Scott,
The key for Republicans after 2012 was the Sean Trende article to stated the Party could win the White House even with limited Latino vote. He showed some math and many Republican voters have followed his hypothesis and used anti-Immigrant positions to win elections. Remember Cantor in 2014? (Also remember Mitt Romney beat Rick Porry in the R primary because Rick Perry supported the Dream Act. So this is not new.) And unfortunately, many on the Republican base rallied around Trump for his un-PC views and Donald is making it a good run for the nomination. (I still think Cruz takes it though who has the strongest conservatives supporting him in Iowa.)
These are unfortunate politics but conservative politicians have to find scapegoats for stagnant wages.
29. December 2015 at 13:15
@ssumner
-Trump may not represent the American people, but he does represent the Republican base quite well. He’s certainly far more in tune to the desires, expectations, and sensibilities of the Republican base than any other Republican candidate. That’s a good thing.
@Jeff
-I’ve been commenting here for a year, usually with praise for Sumner. I’ve become much more sympathetic to anti-semitism over the past two years.
@Travis V
-That game’s ridiculous. Once, I got both inflation and unemployment to well below target levels, but I was fired for “poor monetary policy” for wild upswings and downswings in both in the middle of my term. Also, keeping interest rates at zero leads to double-digit inflation. It’s nuts.
“It is really amazing how this stuff just never goes away.”
-The Chair of the CFR is typically the former Most Powerful Person on Earth, or close to it. Currently, the male co-Chair is Jewish. So’s the Fed Chair, the Secretary of Treasury, and the only notable Democratic alternative to Clinton. Jewish academic supremacy in High School has waned over the past fifty years, but Jewish power in the government, media, and related institutions has waxed significantly. The fact the SJWs focus so little on Jewish power is a stunning testament to Jewish power. Then, again, the fact the SJWs focus so little on Mexican powerlesness is a stunning testament to its existence.
“This comment section has been taken over by lunatics.”
-Freedom, Dan, me, Gary, Ray, and probably Ben Cole at least all provide different flavors of unconvention.
29. December 2015 at 13:27
Harding, I hate anti Semitism. I hate Zionism. Blaming an entire ethnic group or race for an elite cabal is not fair. Put the blame where it is deserved and educate Jewish people to the fact that rabbis converted from Judaism to Zionism by the thousands in the early 20th century and that these Zionist rabbis have been deceiving the masses of Jewish people ever since. But many are learning and see what is happening to the Torah Jews in Israel and are seeing that Judaism has nothing to do with the fraudulent Zion that exists now in Palestine.
29. December 2015 at 13:29
Per your wise-guy last line, it would have been more accurate to substitute Donald Trump for GOP. Yes, he is leading, but still represents a minority of the party. Plus the comment is just irritating in every which way. Then again, you are the one who said “politics is for morons”—-so from one moron to another—-I did not know those Muslim stats. But why should that be surprising?
29. December 2015 at 13:41
Scott,
Leadership of both the GOP and DNC favors open immigration. So why has such legislation not passed a vote in the House of Representatives? Democrats held a majority across all Federal branches of government in 2009 and they did not pass such legislation. Republicans likewise held a majority in 2005 and they hold a majority in Congress now. But no immigration legislation is forthcoming.
Why? If a majority of American people supported open immigration then why did neither Democrats nor Republicans capitalize on this popularity and pass legislation making it the law?
Trump is crude and vulgar. At the same time his vocalization of anti-immigration opinion signals to people a position that is not heard from other political leadership.
29. December 2015 at 14:53
Dan W, at first I held out a little hope for Trump. He seemed to be for fortifying the border which is not at all wrong in and of itself. But he proved to be a bigot, and has offended virtually everyone. He just couldn’t take the high road of tolerance. So, he has become a bad joke, a buffoon, and a bully.
29. December 2015 at 15:34
“I’m very tolerant of loony conspiracy buffs.”
Speaking of conspiracy theories, I am convinced that Trump entered the race as a Democratic/Clinton conspiracy. Trump just thought he would help out his good friends, the Clintons, and probably get some favors down the road.
His popularity surprised everyone, including himself, and now he is attacking the Clintons and he is serious about running. If he does not win the nomination, he will run as an independent and hand the election to Hilary, winning about 10% of the vote. All will be forgiven after the election and Trump and Bill will be seen out playing golf together. Putin will put him in charge of modernizing the Russian military.
29. December 2015 at 15:56
I believe there is an Surinam-based Afro-Caribbean cabal—an ultra-elite illuminati—that controls global financial institutions and Western media.
29. December 2015 at 17:02
“I believe there is an Surinam-based Afro-Caribbean cabal—an ultra-elite illuminati—that controls global financial institutions and Western media.”
Lol, I am sure you do Cole. 🙂 But consider the words of David Ben-Gurion, whose cause is still backed by the wealthiest people in the world:
“In Jerusalem, the United Nations (a truly United Nations) will build a Shrine of the Prophets to serve the federated union of all continents; this will be the seat of the Supreme Court of Mankind, to settle all controversies among the federated continents, as prophesied by Isaiah.”
Considering that Isaiah never prophesied this, one could consider God’s wrath is directed to the globalists who press that cause of Ben-Gurion.
29. December 2015 at 17:19
“Putin will put him in charge of modernizing the Russian military.”
-Whaaaa? Russia isn’t Ukraine. It doesn’t outsource vital government positions like that to foreigners.
@Benjamin Cole
-If it was three Afro-Caribbeans in a row as Fed Chair and four in a row as Secretary of Treasury, and under every rock of degeneracy and leftism I immediately found an Afro-Caribbean while Afro-Caribbean IQ remained unchanged then I would find your claim plausible. I don’t attribute Jewish power largely to conspiracy. There’s favoritism involved; sure, but it’s largely genetics that’s responsible for Jewish wealth and dominance. And if Suriname had the same hold over Congress as the Jewish state does, I’d be worried. Suriname is a much less functional country than Israel.
Trump? A bigot? What sort of language is that?
@Engineer
-Possible. Not excluding the possibility. He’s still the best Republican candidate out there. After him, only Rand Paul.
“I hate Zionism.”
-Zionism began as a form of 19th century nationalism. It was, indeed, more appealing to secularists like Herzl than to orthodox rabbis. But that’s sort of the advantage, isn’t it? The fact Israel is not a restoration of the old Judaic monarchy (which is too IS-like for my taste), but a new democratic, Jewish and secular state which exists in the conception of its government not primarily for the people who happen to be born there (among whom there are many Arabs), but for the Jewish race and for converts to Judaism as a whole. It’s the only state of its kind, and this conception of nationalism is quite unique as well. I see nothing more wrong with it than with any other form of nationalism, though it has different flaws and features compared to those other forms.
“Blaming an entire ethnic group or race for an elite cabal is not fair.”
-Ideology doesn’t create elite cabals in free societies; it merely influences them. The ethnic composition of elite cabals in a free society must largely be attributed to the genetics of its relevant ethnic groups. And outside of Zionism, there seems to be something in the Jewish psyche (speaking loosely), especially outside Israel, which creates a much greater tendency to degeneracy among Jews than among Gentiles. Look at this guy for instance, whom I found just today:
http://leftycartoons.com/
Wasn’t too surprised when I found out he was a fat Jew (despite his name), and looked like one, too.
And today is the fifth anniversary of my first blog, Against Jebel al-Lawz.
29. December 2015 at 17:42
Harding, Zionism is a globalist cabal that seeks world domination. It isn’t just nationalism. You are good at sharing the lie. But that is all it is. Zionism was behind the assassination of JFK, as LBJ’s aunt Hatcher was a Zionist. Zionism is not a religion, at least we agree there.
But consider this Harding, Zionism seeks a Greater Israel, and regime change, even in Russia. The most rabid Zionists in America are the Neocons, who said the US is the only superpower. That arrogance has been proven wrong, yet Stratfor still believes it, saying Russia will fall in the next ten years.
The Zionists are ever hopeful of world domination, Biden said he was one, Obama is one, Cheney is one, every candidate for president must be vetted and is one. But as the next to last Zionist president said, the constitution is just a piece of paper. Certainly that is Zionism, to seek a world court in Israel, completely ignoring the institutions of America. I am, like JFK, a liberal for gun rights. He wanted to monitor Israel’s nuclear program, and he paid the ultimate price trying to keep America free.
You, Harding, paint Zionism as noble. I paint it the way it should be painted, as the enemy of God.
29. December 2015 at 19:13
E Harding, So you think the “base” prefers sophomoric loudmouths spouting nonsense?
Mike, I agree that Trump is not the majority of the GOP, nor did I suggest that he was. I don’t expect him to get the nomination.
At the same time, there is no doubt what answer you would get if you asked people “which party doesn’t like immigrants?”
In a similar way, Sanders is clearly not the favorite on the Democratic side, but if you asked socialists which party did they prefer, what answer would you get?
And yes, all my posts on politics are moronic, I admit that.
29. December 2015 at 19:30
“E Harding, So you think the “base” prefers sophomoric loudmouths spouting nonsense?”
-Scott, again, you seem to be more focused on personality than on policy. It doesn’t really matter how much a leader lies as long as long as his policy’s decent. And though Trump’s policy would not be accepted as decent in any sensible election campaign, this is the election campaign we’re living with. Paul may be slightly saner on some issues, but Trump wins overall, not just on foreign policy (his strong suit), but understanding his base. Rand’s visiting Detroit was an embarrassment. They will not vote for him, no matter how hard he panders.
And, as for your question, yes. See the rise of Ben Carson or this dude:
http://www.unz.com/isteve/if-bernie-sanders-were-a-philip-k-dick-character/
People don’t really value lack of sophomorism or intellectual honesty. Political promises are not regulated by the FTC. And they’re not even restrained by the market. Politicians can and will promise whatever they want, however they want it. Sad fact of life.
“I don’t expect him to get the nomination.”
-Then what dangerous wacko do you expect to get the nomination? All the Republican candidates except Rand are clearly more evil than Trump.
29. December 2015 at 21:12
@E. Harding – “Political promises are not regulated by the FTC.” – actually they are, in a way, regulated by the US government. It’s against the law to offer specific monetary promises in exchange for a vote. The law is interpreted very narrowly. A politician must say: ‘if you vote for me, I will give you $25 in exchange for your vote’ to violate this law. It’s not enough to say ‘vote for me and I’ll cut your taxes’, otherwise every Republican since Reagan would be in jail, some say rightly.
30. December 2015 at 04:15
“every Republican since Reagon would be in jail”…. try every politician would be in jail. Is there a difference between promising a tax cut vs promising a subsidy?.. Don’t think so…
30. December 2015 at 06:32
Remember Sandy Koufax? He got rich, was Jewish…and a lefty.
30. December 2015 at 10:26
I’ve always been somewhat amused by the spectacle of racist white “Christian” anti-semites who find themselves siding with Arabs against the evil Jews.
It’s like watch liberals react to videos of Muslim bakeries rejecting requests for gay wedding cakes.
30. December 2015 at 10:58
@Cooper
-There are a good number of Christian Arabs in Israel+West Bank. In any case, siding with the Arabs in the Israel-Palestine conflict is like siding with the Argentines in the Falklands War, or the Moors against the Spanish. What for? They’re not friends of civilization, especially culturally.
@Ben Cole
-Funny, but not really relevant.
@Gary
“Harding, Zionism is a globalist cabal that seeks world domination. It isn’t just nationalism.”
-Zionism is an ideology. It’s too large to be a cabal. Any Zionist world domination must come primarily (though not wholly; the Bush administration was very Zionist, though not particularly Jewish in composition) through Jewish power. Not the other way around.
“Zionism is not a religion, at least we agree there.”
-Eeerily, Zionism was much more consistent with the message of the Tanakh than what the Rabbis made of it. Every time I read the books of Joshua or Deuteronomy, I am amazed how the Zionists of the 1930s and 1940s fused the will to conquest of Joshua with Western secular ethics and rationality. But Zionism was never meant to be a full turn to religious Judaism. Israel’s founders intended to be a secular, Jewish, and democratic state. This may well be the fundamental conflict within the ideology- should the Jewish state be a territorial nation-state (like Mexico), secular racial state (“the state of the Jewish people”), or theocracy (restoration of the Maccabees)? It’s leaning towards the second two. The neocons favor the middle option.
“But consider this Harding, Zionism seeks a Greater Israel, and regime change, even in Russia.”
-Neoconnery does. But Zionism as a whole? Israel is quite friendly with Russia. It didn’t condemn it in the Russia-Georgia war, and Steve Sailer has pointed out that ties between the two countries are more likely to improve than deteriorate:
http://takimag.com/article/an_israel_russia_alliance_steve_sailer/print
“The most rabid Zionists in America are the Neocons, who said the US is the only superpower. That arrogance has been proven wrong, yet Stratfor still believes it, saying Russia will fall in the next ten years.”
-Agreed wholly here.
“The Zionists are ever hopeful of world domination, Biden said he was one, Obama is one, Cheney is one, every candidate for president must be vetted and is one. But as the next to last Zionist president said, the constitution is just a piece of paper. Certainly that is Zionism, to seek a world court in Israel, completely ignoring the institutions of America.”
-Well, yes. Cf., Jonathan Pollard. But Bibi’s no friends with Netanyahu. Peace with Iran would hurt his political party. Of course, Obama’s only attempting peace with Iran in order to weaken it, just like he’s trying to do to Cuba.
“He wanted to monitor Israel’s nuclear program, and he paid the ultimate price trying to keep America free.”
-He still pandered like mad to Zionists. See the quote I gave in an earlier comment. And I think an Israeli connection to the JFK assassination is pretty far-out. Neither is there good evidence I’ve seen LBJ was responsible.
30. December 2015 at 13:49
Scott, some really good comments here at your blog. Compelling and rich.
30. December 2015 at 15:05
@msgkings
Did not Scott say “This comment section has been taken over by lunatics”? Obviously, many of the comments would be good, compelling, and rich if that were so.
30. December 2015 at 16:04
I certainly knew that. I have wondered how much his opponent Al Gore’s running mate being a hawkish Orthodox Jew, Joe Lieberman, was worth in that margin, if anything. GWB also ran on a “humble foreign policy” so it is probably impossible to tell.
30. December 2015 at 17:21
But Bibi’s no friends with
NetanyahuObama. Can’t believe I didn’t notice that at first.30. December 2015 at 20:54
Scott’ it’s still the case that the GOP is fielding immigrant children as nominees and the democrats are fielding the geratric white radicals of yesteryear. You got Cruz and Rubio as leading candidates. Jindal didn’t make it, but even Jeb lived three years in Caracas and is married to an immigrant.
30. December 2015 at 21:41
“But Bibi’s no friends with Netanyahu Obama. Can’t believe I didn’t notice that at first.” Well, the only issue of contention is Iran. On regime change in Syria, on keeping ISIS from being destroyed, they are on the same evil page, Harding.
30. December 2015 at 21:51
“Neither is there good evidence I’ve seen LBJ was responsible.”
Wrong, Harding. LBJ’s mistress is on video saying he knew. LBJ is on video saying others did it. Oswald’s killer was on video saying the president knew about it. D Harold Byrd, best friend of LBJ, owned the Texas Book Depository at the time.
Plenty of evidence. You just have to believe it.
30. December 2015 at 21:56
Harding, you said: “Any Zionist world domination must come primarily (though not wholly; the Bush administration was very Zionist, though not particularly Jewish in composition) through Jewish power.”
Still trying to make a racial issue out of it, Harding. You are more like Cooper than you would like to admit. It isn’t a racial issue. Without Cheney, 9/11 and US entrance into the middle east would not have happened. The neocons don’t have complete power because they wanted US ownership of Iraqi oil fields. Big oil said no. The ideology is a cabal and wants to dominate as a cabal. It has the central bank mispricing risk to make the cabal more powerful. Even BAC admitted that the other day.
30. December 2015 at 21:59
And Harding, True Torah Jews know the truth about Zionism and you should read it: http://www.truetorahjews.org/whatiszionism
I support, politically, anyone who helps expose the real truth about Zionism.
30. December 2015 at 23:49
““But Bibi’s no friends with Netanyahu Obama. Can’t believe I didn’t notice that at first.” Well, the only issue of contention is Iran. On regime change in Syria, on keeping ISIS from being destroyed, they are on the same evil page, Harding.”
-Zero disagreement. As I say, the Islamic State might not be created by Israel, but it exists in a fundamentally Zionist context. And Obama wants to destroy the Iranian government much like the Soviet government was destroyed -with aid, and not too blatantly. The Soviet government was destroyed from within Moscow, but had Reagan and Bush been excessively anti-Soviet in action (there was lots of U.S. aid to and trade with the USSR behind the scenes, especially under Nixon), the fall of the USSR would have been delayed into the late 1990s.
9/11 was a culmination of terrorist attacks by AQ that began under Clinton.
“It has the central bank mispricing risk to make the cabal more powerful.”
-Don’t see how the Fed’s particularly Zionist. I do see it particularly Jew-dominated. And mispricing risk is less of an issue than unstable NGDP growth.
“LBJ’s mistress is on video saying he knew.”
-Not credible.
“LBJ is on video saying others did it. Oswald’s killer was on video saying the president knew about it.”
-Both were JFK assasination conspiracy theorists, as were lots of other Americans. Why should I be surprised? My two biggest contenders for any possible conspiracy (and my odds are still on the Oswald-alone idea) are the CIA (it lied like crazy about what it knew about Oswald) and the Cuban government.
“D Harold Byrd, best friend of LBJ, owned the Texas Book Depository at the time.”
-And how did he have the ability to plant a rifle with Oswald’s palm print there?
Good link. But, in any case, I am an atheist, and Israel is still an inspiration to the nations.
31. December 2015 at 09:28
E. Harding, I expect a different, slightly less wacko right winger to get the nomination.
As far as Trump:
1. Self-described militarist.
2. Xenophobe
3. Protectionist
4. Single payer health care.
5. Tax reform to help the hedge fund guys.
What’s not to like?
Answer: Everything.
31. December 2015 at 10:51
How much different would the world be if the Jewish people had done like the Mormons or really like most of the Christian sects that formed the original American colonies and found a less contested piece of land to create a homeland…like Belize…that is what I don’t understand about the Zionist movement.. Their leaders were not religious.. So why did it have to be
Palestine?
31. December 2015 at 12:32
All the other Republicans are more wacko than Trump, especially on foreign policy (especially Christie, Kasich, Bush, and Rubio). All the other candidates are at least vaguely anti-Russia. Trump is the only candidate who has Putin’s endorsement. That’s good enough for me.
Cruz isn’t a xenophobe? In this election, xenophilia is a massive bug for a Republican.
And, yes, he’s a protectionist, which is a major problem, but he can’t do that without going through Congress. My biggest concerns are about what the President can directly affect, namely, Supreme Court appointments and foreign policy.
I thought his tax reform was meant to hurt the hedge fund guys. And, in any case, he plans to cut the top marginal income tax rate so much, it’ll probably turn out to be a wash.
@Engineer
-Herzl wanted southern Argentina. The more religious Zionists wouldn’t accept it. So Palestine remained the consensus option.
1. January 2016 at 09:32
E. Harding:
Assume you mean “except for Rand Paul” if you’re talking about foreign policy, presumably with some kind of disclaimer about how he can’t win. (Cruz has roughly the same foreign policy as Trump.)
1. January 2016 at 11:19
Sumner wrote:
“As far as Trump:
1. Self-described militarist.
2. Xenophobe
3. Protectionist
4. Single payer health care.
5. Tax reform to help the hedge fund guys.
What’s not to like?”
Sumner, if you fully support central banking, which is predicated on a violation of property rights, I.e. aggression, by what leg do you have to stand on to criticize Trump’s views?
If aggression is justified in money, why not in domestic protectionism, healthcare, and hedge fund favoritism?
The fact is that you don’t have any rational basis for attacking Trump’s views because you have already rejected rationalism in defending your own views. Every garbage defense of NGDPLT ever uttered on this blog can be used to justify Trump’s views without the slightest inconsistency.
All the nonsense about “pragmatism”, which is nothing but codespeak for contradictory beliefs and hypocrisy, can be used to justify all of Trump’s beliefs, and you would have no way of refuting those views. The only thing you could do is pretend that Trump’s views are somehow not “truly” pragmatic, by posing an arbitrary definition of pragmatism that just so happens to coincide with your beliefs.
Maybe you don’t like Trump’s views because they are a more explicit and outspoken version of your own views. He embarrasses you.
1. January 2016 at 12:45
E. Harding, You said:
“I thought his tax reform was meant to hurt the hedge fund guys.”
Of course he did! Don’t you see the absurdity of what you just wrote? Trump’s a fool or a liar. Which is it?
I agree that Trump’s a lot like Putin. And Berlusconi. However I don’t view that as a point in his favor.
He is also a loony conspiracy nut, a wonderful quality to have for a President with his finger on the nuclear button.